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General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Andrew on January 12, 2011, 09:47:03 PM

Title: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 12, 2011, 09:47:03 PM
Firstly is it possible to open up the plastic GM battery connector plug without breaking it. 

Secondly,  once open how best to splice/join a second PIE cable so I can run two pies off one battery, and how best to re-seal the connector plastic cover.

I know this is a rudimentary question, but please keep in mind I have no previous skill level with doing this kind of thing. :-\

Andrew :)
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: DirtyGinge on January 12, 2011, 10:09:12 PM
Hi Andrew

What ive done is to duplicate the connector on the battery throughout the system, its called an anderson sBM50 or 50 amp ......they are much higher quality than the GM ones ( wont arc on high current).lots of solder required for installation, but you can make leads for  your own configuration that all link together ....2 each for the cycle analyst at each end of the shunt, a 2 into one for battery connections ( even one for my turnigy watt meter for battery charging self bms)...so you can choose battery in parrellel or battery for each wheel easily

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6120150
( the cheapest I can find)
they are symettrical, so 2 will link to each other, really easy to install after the first one

let me know if you need any more info
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 12, 2011, 10:23:21 PM
thanks mate,

so to keep things simple, I really just need one of these Andreson connectors(as in link) and then I can just join the black and red wires from both pie cables onto it?

Sorry for the simplistic approach, but I really need this broken down, as i've never even used a soldering iron  before. I suppose this is a crash course...
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: GM Canada on January 13, 2011, 03:09:23 AM
thanks mate,

so to keep things simple, I really just need one of these Andreson connectors(as in link) and then I can just join the black and red wires from both pie cables onto it?

Sorry for the simplistic approach, but I really need this broken down, as i've never even used a soldering iron  before. I suppose this is a crash course...

I know some will probably complain about this method but this is how I did it. On my bike I have all my wires join up in a controller box. There is plenty of room and the conections are unseen. Instead of soldering or making nice plug conections I just twisted the ends together and used marrets like the photo shown. Then I added black electrical tape to ensure they stay on. This works very well but does look bulky. But since the conection is hidden it doesnt mattter.

Gary

Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 13, 2011, 07:58:59 AM


http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6120150
( the cheapest I can find)
they are symettrical, so 2 will link to each other, really easy to install after the first one

let me know if you need any more info



OK, I'm probably looking into this in a far more complex manner than needs be.

let me get this straight in my head....

1. cut/strip both PIE cables/wires near battery connector.
2. Twist wires together (red to red and black to black)
3. Push the 'Spade' like connectors(that come with the Anderson) on to the twisted wires and crimp each on tight.
4. Push each spade connector into correct Anderson plug terminal and click it into position?


Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: MonkeyMagic on January 13, 2011, 09:01:59 AM
Hey Andrew

There is probably a plethora of ways to do it.... Honestly I think Gary's method would be best for you if you are a little unsure...
The anderson connector can be disassembled by pushing a small flat head screwdriver though the back of the plug, you will see a 'tang' splade that locks in the anderson terminal.

You could cut 2 completely good leads and put another plug on there, what I would do is just cut 1 plug off a lead, then strip a centimetre or 2 in a place on the good lead to solder the second one to. So then you keep 1 good lead, and have a spare connector. No need to buy another Anderson connector.

Make sure your soldering iron is 60+Watts >> ideally 80W for that gauge wire.  Or those marrets Gary suggested would be fine.

I made a new power cable (10AWG) that splits into 2 x 12AWG as with the single GM 12Ah battery pack you WILL have quite a voltage drop with the standard wiring.
The shorter you can make your dual drive power cable with a single GM battery the better.

Ooooh someone is close to tasty dual drive action ;)






Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: DirtyGinge on January 13, 2011, 04:09:57 PM
Hi Andrew

I got some wiring to do this weekend with the CA, if you can wait, ill do a picture guide...( or tomorrow if I get time)

I ve put andersons on

both ends cycle analyst

3 into 1 battery connectors ( for distance)

turnight watt meter

Even on the charger, so I charge the original GM battery through the battery out instead of the charger socket, so the charger has the same end for all the batteries


regards
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 13, 2011, 04:34:42 PM
Hi Andrew

I got some wiring to do this weekend with the CA, if you can wait, ill do a picture guide...( or tomorrow if I get time)

I ve put andersons on

both ends cycle analyst

3 into 1 battery connectors ( for distance)

turnight watt meter

Even on the charger, so I charge the original GM battery through the battery out instead of the charger socket, so the charger has the same end for all the batteries


regards

that would be of the greatest help :)  :)   All I need are the basics so I can get two pies running off the one GM 48v battery.

Cheers Ginge! ;D

As much as Gary's 'wire nut' solution seems the easiest way to bind two wires, I don't quite understand where along the two cables I would do that??  I think i'm being a bit dopey
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 13, 2011, 05:22:16 PM
This is how I picture setting up the front pie neatly.


(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/apaclark/Untitled-1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 13, 2011, 07:43:18 PM
Hi Andrew

What ive done is to duplicate the connector on the battery throughout the system, its called an anderson sBM50 or 50 amp ......they are much higher quality than the GM ones ( wont arc on high current).lots of solder required for installation, but you can make leads for  your own configuration that all link together ....2 each for the cycle analyst at each end of the shunt, a 2 into one for battery connections ( even one for my turnigy watt meter for battery charging self bms)...so you can choose battery in parrellel or battery for each wheel easily

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6120150
( the cheapest I can find)
they are symettrical, so 2 will link to each other, really easy to install after the first one

let me know if you need any more info

Just found out there is an 'RS Components' trade Counter not far from where I work. So I will be picking up an Anderson connector after work tomorrow.  £2.78 seems very reasonable.(just means one less pint o' cider tomorrow night) :P

I've taken the plastic plug off the GM battery cable leaving the two terminals on the red and black wires, I think they have been soldered as well as crimped, but i'm not sure.

Will the new terminals with the RS Anderson Connector need soldering?  I suppose crimping is not enough to get a good contact???

Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: DirtyGinge on January 13, 2011, 08:18:22 PM
Hi Andrew

I can tell you cant wait till the weekend  ;)

here is a video for a larger but same version of the anderson powerpoles (ours are 50, but these are 175amp I think..i heat with a soldering iron, but here they use a blowtorch, but the method is the same, you will get the general idea....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph7h6rYZnVI&feature=related

all the reds to +, all the blacks to -....I hope this helps...i tend to stand them on their end, and fill a bath of solder about half way ( this will take some time as the connector and the holder will absorb heat, but once you get the "bath " liquid, you just insert the wire

anything you arent clear on, just post ;)
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 13, 2011, 08:32:37 PM
nice one! ;D

Andrew 8)
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: GM Canada on January 14, 2011, 02:51:00 AM
Hi Andrew,

Here are two pictures, one DualPieOneBattery and DualPieDualBattery. you just twist all the reds together and all the blacks together, then marret them together. Then you are good to go to plug them into the desired components. Of couse the cable lengths have to be altered to fit the locations of the items on the bike, but this is just to simplify the thinking.

Gary
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 14, 2011, 07:23:39 AM
Gary
Thanks for taking pictures, I need visuals :D

makes complete sense.  I will try soldering on a new connector first, as it is cheaper to buy one of these than to buy a pack of marrette connectors.   When/if it all goes wrong I will use the marrette as plan B  ;D


I will get there, never mind how slowly!
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 14, 2011, 07:40:48 AM
Hi Andrew

I can tell you cant wait till the weekend  ;)

here is a video for a larger but same version of the anderson powerpoles (ours are 50, but these are 175amp I think..i heat with a soldering iron, but here they use a blowtorch, but the method is the same, you will get the general idea....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph7h6rYZnVI&feature=related

all the reds to +, all the blacks to -....I hope this helps...i tend to stand them on their end, and fill a bath of solder about half way ( this will take some time as the connector and the holder will absorb heat, but once you get the "bath " liquid, you just insert the wire

anything you arent clear on, just post ;)


Will a 60watt soldering iron be powerful enough to heat the Anderson Terminals enough to melt in the solder and keep it liquid for long enough to push in the wire?
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: MonkeyMagic on January 14, 2011, 08:39:57 AM
Ohhh poor Monkey nobody reads his posts lol

60W is enough. I use a 'automotive' one that's 80W with a big splade tip. It was about $20AUD (so around £20 hehe)

If you already have a 60W use that, as if you ever have to solder onto a PCB (the BMS or controller for example) then you don't want something TOO hot.

Really you are just doing the wires, so even a blowtorch will suffice champ

MM





Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: GM Canada on January 14, 2011, 02:48:43 PM
Gary
Thanks for taking pictures, I need visuals :D

makes complete sense.  I will try soldering on a new connector first, as it is cheaper to buy one of these than to buy a pack of marrette connectors.   When/if it all goes wrong I will use the marrette as plan B  ;D


I will get there, never mind how slowly!

The pictures are no problem. I just wanted to show you how simple the wiring can be and that you may be overthinking it.

Gary
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: DirtyGinge on January 14, 2011, 04:44:22 PM
Ive used a 48V before, just takes longer

Monkey, how far down the line did you go with the thicker wiring, all the way into the pie or just to the connector ?

Regards
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 14, 2011, 05:59:58 PM
Ohhh poor Monkey nobody reads his posts lol

60W is enough. I use a 'automotive' one that's 80W with a big splade tip. It was about $20AUD (so around £20 hehe)

If you already have a 60W use that, as if you ever have to solder onto a PCB (the BMS or controller for example) then you don't want something TOO hot.

Really you are just doing the wires, so even a blowtorch will suffice champ

MM







i did read,,   I was just checking I had read it correctly! ;)
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 14, 2011, 06:24:03 PM
Ginge,

got the Anderson,   I think that 'RS Components' is going to come in handy. just ten minutes from my work place. ;D

Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 14, 2011, 07:58:29 PM
do I need any special kind of solder or will any cheap solder do.  I've heard about rosin being used as an ingrediant in solder, do I really need this in the alloy mix?
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: DirtyGinge on January 14, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
To be honest I havent used it....not to any detrimental effect...have pulled 38 amps through these connections with both pies and no problems so far......im sure there is a reason, but don't know it yet 

RS components are pretty handy I must admit, just getting ready for my 5v relay install, to turn off one pie and enable disable the cycle analyst limiting.....might use another relay for throttle / PAS control on or off...........too much time, too many children, ....shed beer time ;)
Title: Re: Soldering connectors
Post by: Bikemad on January 15, 2011, 01:09:46 AM
do I need any special kind of solder or will any cheap solder do.  I've heard about rosin being used as an ingrediant in solder, do I really need this in the alloy mix?

Andrew, I always use "flux-core" solder for electrical work and non fluxed solder for plumbing joints.

Flux-core solder already has the flux (which is needed to reduce oxidisation and help produce a much better joint) contained within the solder itself.
Most flux-core solders contain a rosin based flux, making them much more suitable for electrical work than the acid based fluxes which can cause big problems if the surplus flux is not removed thoroughly.

The alternative is to use a separate flux paste which is applied to the area to be joined prior to using non fluxed solder.

If you buy your solder from an electrical supplier, the chances are it will be flux core solder, but if you buy it from a plumbing supplier, it's more likely to be non fluxed solder.

Hope this helps.

Alan
 
Title: Re: Joining two PIE power cables to one battery connector
Post by: Andrew on January 15, 2011, 08:23:46 AM
thanks Alan, yep, makes sense :)