GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: Electrobent on January 18, 2010, 07:12:00 PM
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I just got an email from UPS telling them that GMUSA asked them to pick it up in Scottsdale. We (So Calif) are supposed to get the last five years worth of rain in the next week so its not like I am going to get to ride right away but this is essential progress. I guess the first thing I will do is take it to the electronics shop and measure the induction of the coils. And then, as those of you who labored through my movie know too well, I need to replace the front fork. Maybe I need to reinforce it first?
I hope to be writing a rave review in a few weeks.
Happy New Year to all!
--Eric
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nice ;)
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Great news.
I tested my inductance with motor apart, when I tested it put together with magnets in place the inductance changed around when I rotated the stator. It still read 844uh max and at least I forget maybe 150uh.
Thats nice, the effect of the magnets creating impedance in the coils.
I hope it turns out all ok for you.
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Can you leave the inductance meter connected while you turn the stator or do you have to connect-read-disconnect-turn-connect-read etc?
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The wheel has arrived and passes visual inspection.
What I need right now are hip waders though.
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Can you leave the inductance meter connected while you turn the stator or do you have to connect-read-disconnect-turn-connect-read etc?
I did. It may be a bad idea to spin the wheel come to think of it. I just turned the wheel slowly. The meters can test pretty high volts but I don't think it would be wise to be connected to a fully spinning wheel.
The increment turning to get the proper reading is very small. Ever so slightly to see if the inductance goes max. If you were to measure all the low points you could test the magnets health state. The more impedance, the stronger the field externally applies reactance, indicting the magnets effectiveness..
Keep us informed
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I have the new front forks in place and the new motor mounted. This one is very true and rounder than the first one but it is off-center--there is more space on the wire side. This is a front wheel. I have futzed around with shims of different thickness (my old 36V shims) and have it within a few mm. Is this on purpose to allow the use of disc brakes? If so, how are they mounted?
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Have you got the wheel working yet?
Damn keeping me in suspense any longer.
You must be pretty keen to get out riding again.
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no, I have been messing with my front forks. Remember my "drop-outs dropped out." They cut my new one too short and I had to ditch the ring in the threaded headset. I gooped it up with lock-tite and said a prayer. Now I am trying to get the cantilever brake to work with the off-center wheel. The weather has been horrible so I have been working in cramped and underlit conditions. Next the stem goes in and the seat goes on and then we tie up the wires and cables and synch the motor. And then I can find some way to get air into the front tire (the hubs have been wider to improve torque and the rims have been made wider to improve strength and now there is not room to get a pump head on the stub of a schraeder valve sticking through the rim. I need to find that adapter thingy Bikemad pointed out.
I guess I have learned patience from this project. I have been off-the-road since mid-2009.
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I have the new front forks in place and the new motor mounted. This one is very true and rounder than the first one but it is off-center--there is more space on the wire side. This is a front wheel. I have futzed around with shims of different thickness (my old 36V shims) and have it within a few mm. Is this on purpose to allow the use of disc brakes? If so, how are they mounted?
Eric,
It's good to hear your wheel has finally arrived.
If the new hub is offset, it will have been done to allow a disc brake to be fitted, but unless you have the required mounting lugs on your forks, then fitting a disc brake is not really a viable option. (Unless you're prepared to fabricate and weld on a suitable mounting bracket for the calliper.) ;)
Check this out for more information regarding the fitting of disc brakes. (http://mountain.bike198.com/how-to-install-and-adjust-disc-brakes/)
If the hub is offset to allow for clearance for the disc, I would expect the rim to have been laced to the hub with a suitable offset to ensure the rim and tyre remain centred within the forks.
(Or am I just expecting too much?)
Any chance you can post a picture showing the offset hub on the new hub?
Anyway, let's hope you will be mobile again soon.(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/fingerscrossed-fingers-crossed-good.GIF)
Alan
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Here are some pics of the wheel as I have been able to shim it so far.
I got some super thin washers so I ought to be able to adjust it a bit.
The flat on the wire side of the axle sticks out a few millimeters further than the one on the other side. It is also the case that the wire side has a one-step boss around the axle while the other side has a two step box. It almost looks like the missing second step is the difference in the distance between the innermost washer and the stop on the axle.
If you look at the distances between the bottom of the forks and the hub, they look about equal but if you go up to brake level, there is considerable difference.
I put a rule on each side of the rim and noted where it touches the hub and there is not much difference there--which I would think there would be if the wheel were dished.
I beginning to think that the blades of this fork are not the same length and the wheel is mounted at an angle.
Where can I get a 20" 1" threaded fork with the mounting hardware for a disc brake?
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more pics
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I beginning to think that the blades of this fork are not the same length and the wheel is mounted at an angle.
What are your forks made of, aluminium or steel? If they are steel you may be able to file out the right(?) side of the slot where the axel sits to cente and straigten up the wheel. By the look of it, you may not have to file off much, as only a small amount of filing will translate into a greater displacement at the tire. I think steel would still remain strong even though you file a bit off. However even unmodiified aluminium may eventually break under the load of a hub motor, not recommended for from hub motors. Either way, do you have a torque bar?
Muzza.
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Where can I get a 20" 1" threaded fork with the mounting hardware for a disc brake?
Eric, that hub does not look like it has the required mountings for a disc to be attached, as there are no bolt holes and no threaded boss to screw an adapter onto.
So perhaps it's best to forget about a disc brake conversion.
The rim appears to have been laced slightly offset.
You should be able to correct this offset with some careful use of a spoke key:
If you start at the valve and then slacken all the spokes on the right by unscrewing the nipple half a turn and then tighten all the spokes on the left side by tightening the nipple half a turn, and then see how it looks. As long as each nipple is moved the same amount, this should ensure the wheel stays true.
You may need to repeat this process to get the rim centred correctly within the forks.
Check out this link for further information regarding tensioning the spokes and truing the wheel (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#tensioning)
(http://www.bicyclebuys.com/productimages/1736245.jpg)
If the wheels were correctly trued using a suitable wheel truing jig, then problems like this should not arise!
Alan
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my wheel had the same problem, I used the spoke key to adjust at the center of the fork. easy and fast. This problem seems to be repeated too, the wheels are centered at the center of the engine and not where it belongs.
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This is a GM motor? What motor is this?
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This is a GM motor? What motor is this?
It's an HBS48F-1000W fitted to a 20" rim.
(http://goldenmotor.com/hubmotors/hubmotor-imgs/f-e.gif)
Alan
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If the wheels were correctly trued using a suitable wheel truing jig, then problems like this should not arise!
Alan
Do I detect a hint there! ;)
muzza.au
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I was hoping I could drill and tap that single step boss on the wire side for a disc brake--it seems so much more fun than trying to reset a wheel. I have a truing stand and a dial gauge and holder so I can dial it in to .001 inch. I just don't know where I am going to find all the Zen needed for that job! I guess I will just strap it all together, synch the controller, and take a baby ride down the block to make sure it is all going to work--maybe then I'll be psyched to dial it in.
I hope the regen proves to brake enough!
Its stopped raining so maybe this all can happen. I still have to figure out how to pump up the tire.
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OK, I spent half a day moving the rim a half inch to the left. It needed to be moved 3/4 of an inch but I ran out of spoke thread.
I borrowed a compressor and filled a tank and then used that to fill the tire. Hooked up the wires and again had a very hard time identifying the best phase setting. Finally find one that seems good. It's crunchy at first and then smooths out--but it runs just as well with the green power wire disconnected.
Maybe it just doesn't work with my early model 48V Zhidong Regen controller (which I bought from Golden a couple of years ago)--or my controller isn't programmed right. There was supposed to be an external programmer but it never materialized. I guess I'll take my controller apart and see if anything looks funky inside. Anyone have any recommendations for a good controller to use with NiMH?
I just can't figure out how it could be that the color of the disconnected wire was constant on the wheel side while the problem was on the controller side.
I am stumped, humbled, and chagrined. My apologies to everyone--especially GM.
Here's a pic of the rim showing no threads on the right side spokes but a few millimeters of thread on the left side showing. Its the opposite now. The second picture is of the inside of the controller. It's not very good but you can sort of make out the cracks in the heads of the screws holding the tabs of the FETs to the heatsink.
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so nobody knows what to say now?
Will the GM "Cruise Controller" work with this wheel?
They no longer list the 48V regen controller on their website.
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Will the GM "Cruise Controller" work with this wheel?
Eric,
The cruise controller will work fine with your motor, and it has regen, plus you can wire it to use the anti-theft alarm and wheel locking function if you want to.
But as an "authorized dealer", I expect you already knew this. ;D
Hey, I just noticed that I am now an authorized dealer.
I guess this means I can buy a new controller from myself ;) ?
That sounds like a great idea, but I think you may have to haggle with yourself to get it at the best price. (http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/emoticons/3_small.GIF)
Alan
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Alan:
I am no longer an Authorized Dealer (but you probably know that!)
Will the Cruise Controller work if I don't connect the brake switch at first. Will it just run with no regen? When I had my 36V set up the switched handle GM was selling would not work in my configuration so I just made it so you worked the throttle and front brake with the same hand and could not do both at once (throttle on bar end, brake lever mounted upside down on a bar extender). I bought a magnetic reed switch kit from a guy on Endless Sphere and want to install that for the regen to work but want to leave all that out of the loop until I get the basic stuff working.
What is the real upper limit on the voltage? I took my two 36V packs apart to make one 48V pack and I have some cells left (but no good way to charge them unless my 36-48V charger can go higher or I get another charger or charge them in batches.
I guess the lesson I learned from this is to buy the components that will work together, together. I wanted to put regen in my 36V system and bought the 48V controller thinking I would be able to turn down the cut-off voltage but the promised programming tool never materialized. Perhaps that is related to why GM no longer lists the 48V Regen controller. The picture does, however, indicate that the controller is available in 24, 36, and 48V models.
Oh, I thought all the locking stuff was vapor-ware. Did I not read deep enough?
--Eric
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Eric,
The Cruise Controller will work without the brake switch, but as you say, without regen.
All of the cruise controllers can handle up to 60V, the only difference between the three variants is the low voltage cut-off.
You would need to email sales@goldenmotor.com regarding the 48V Regen controller to see if they are available or not.
(I see the 36V version is $20 more than the cruise controller).
The wheel locking does work with your motor, but not with the geared minimotors. (or the current Magic Pies)
The cruise controller should give you a better range than the regen only one, as it will enable you to coast with the throttle fully released, whereas the regen one automatically activates regen when the throttle is released, meaning you have to keep the throttle partly activated in order to prevent unwanted deceleration.
In my opinion, the cruise controller is both cheaper and better, but you must decide what suits your specific needs best. (If it is still available in a 48V version)
The cruise control is a nice feature, but to use it safely, you would need to have your brake switch installed.
Alan
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All of the cruise controllers can handle up to 60V, the only difference between the three variants is the low voltage cut-off.
Thanks Alan.
Is this 60 volts nominal or 60 volts actual?
My nominally 48V (40 cell) NiMH pack is 58.6 volts fully charged.
Should I add 10 cells to my series or just leave well enough alone?
--Eric
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Eric,
I'm pretty sure the capacitors are rated at 63V, but GM state 60V maximum for the controller, so I wouldn't add any more cells to your pack, just to play safe.
(Another 40 cells wired in parallel would be OK)
Alan
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OK-I ordered the 48V cruise controller. I wish I had just done that in November!
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OK-I ordered the 48V cruise controller. I wish I had just done that in November!
Me (and I can imagine a few others) too. ;D In my experience the cruise controller works great with that motor, especially with the green wire connected (sorry, could not resist). ;)
Okay, that's more then enough teasing from me. Anyway, I'm glad to see you've finally gotten to the bottom of your problem. Those symptoms were pretty baffling, live and learn as they say. I hope it will be smooth sailing from here for you.
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Logic suggested the wheel was at fault.
I still don't understand but if this does not work, I am going back to non-electric.
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Logic suggested the wheel was at fault.
I still don't understand but if this does not work, I am going back to non-electric.
You are right, I was only teasing a bit, please don't take it personal.
Just hang in there, I'm sure things will work out once your cruise controller arrives.