GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => General Discussions => Topic started by: friggerand on September 04, 2007, 01:06:13 PM
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I'm taking my REPEAT BUSINESS elsewhere from now on. I've bought eleven of them so far... 9 for business, with an immediate need of 3 more, but I will fill those 3 orders using another companies product just becasue I am that sick of myelectricbike.
Since the first day on this forum I've had to listen to it......electricbike man, whatever your name is......shut the hell up already....you need to be slapped...this forum isn't all about you, and YOU are the reason why this forum sucks bad. Take your narrow, company tagline view, and bury it you know where. No one needs your crap every time they post something. And you can go on your "I work for Golden Motors and I'm the head cheese promoter routine" all you want...you cost Golden Motors sales...period...YOU make people search elsewhere. You can stand on your soapbox, flaming "trolls" all you want....and then they never become owners...because who, in their right mind, would after they try to learn about the product, and any question they ask, they are belittled, told to just shut up and buy it, they're lucky they are even allowed to buy it ( as I'm sure you'd be happier if you were the only Golden Motor owner...don't worry, keep it up, you soon will be).....Who the F*&K DO YOU THINK YOU ARE! PM me your address, next time I'm in the States for a fight, I'll stop by for a warm-up.....
GOOF!
I'm not buying Golden Motor kits anymore...just because of you...faggot. Whoever from Golden Motors is in charge of this forum really needs to get electricbike out of here before they lose all their business....On another forum....when the discussion turned to Golden Motors, EVERYONE said "don't buy one! They are crap, If you try to find out why they are cheap or ask questions, you get yelled at....." There was even some question as to whether the product existed, being so shocked that when he asked a question that people ask before spending hard-earned money on something, he was belittled and told he wasn't allowed to ask any questions because he didn't already own one already.......WTF!?
Are you serious?
Get this jerk out of here, he has ruined the forum for everyone...and I don't care if he was the first guy on the forum...you want it soo bad....keep it, talk to yourself all day...call yourself a troll....get mad at anyone else trying to be a distributer and increase the product's visisbility...and all the other crap....
I will mention Crystalyte all I damn well want.....Crystalyte. Crystalyte. Crystalyte. Crystalyte. Now what punk?!!!!!
Don't even allow anyone to even mention the competition or try to draw any comparisons at all...that's how you promote a product...you are soo stupid, it should be illegal. I've sold 9 E-choppers thus far, all with GM's in them....no more...switching to Crystalyte...one because even though they are more expensive, there are more options to choose from for different applications and speeds. They are promoted by people who actually want you to want their product...not someone who tells you nothing and yells at you if you ask or bring up any kind of comparison or qualm. I don't have to look at this forum to keep selling GM stuff, but, I am penalizing Golden now for allowing you to take over their forum and destroy it and keep people away from wanted to be a part of it or wanting the product at all...when you can't even ask any questions about the product until after you already own it...and then only the questions that elctricbike ALLOWS you to ask.
Again, send me your address, we'll discuss this in person......
PUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The E-Chopper Shop
www.freewebs.com/echoppershop
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Amazing that you would be unable to remain silient, chopper boy.
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Friggerand -
Thank you for pointing me to Crystalite... or more accurately to ebikes.ca via Crystalite.com.
I don't know how the two hub motors & accessories compare in practice, but I did find that
e-bikes provides a lot of very useful information. Their technical descriptions of brushless
permanent magnet motors and controllers and their "simulator" in particular.
http://ebikes.ca/simulator/
As for the dogfight going on here, I've been on some version of the Internet for 30 years
(back to the days arpanet, milnet, usenet (uucp/uumail/etc.)) and it is inevitable that text-mediated
discussion groups erupt in personality conflicts. I don't fully understand it but I do accept it.
I really appreciate the engagement, advice and help I have already gotten from each of the
"big dogs" in this fight, so am disinclined to take any "sides" in the scrap going on.
So far, the info gained on ebikes.ca complements what I get here. I don't see any active
discussion group associated with ebikes.ca or crystalite.com. I assume some of the players/customers there
actually use *this* forum for discussion. Despite the regular snarling and snapping, the
quality of information seems high.
It is a lot like going into a good dive-bar... you meet the most interesting people even if some
of them are busy biting the ears of other interesting people!
Can I buy any of you scrappers a beer, hand you a towel?
Carry on!
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OffGrid
Justin of the http://www.ebikes.ca/index.shtml site is helpful and the site does provide good information.
You could also checkout http://endless-sphere.com/forums/index.php a site with more topics than just electric bike motors.
Aww, for the good old days of the internet with text only Gopher sites and ftp for images, not.
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And Justin just bought several Golden motors so they can't be all that bad... ;D
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friggerand,
You lost all your credibility the second you used the word "faggot". Extremely unprofessional for somebody that runs an e-commerce site. Remind me never to buy anything from you.
Myelectricbike has helped me with two of my problems now, I'm a newb here and its nice to have somebody to ask about newb problems. So say what you want, he's a helpful dude...
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Thanks ecyclist! ;D I very much appreciate the support and hope that I can continue to help everyone but especially newbies who really may need it the most. Thanks! ;D
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DaleCV -
Tanks for the EndlessSphere link...
I hit a goldmine of cool sh!t right away...
like this company that makes cordless drills
do new and entertaining things (not that kind
of entertaining, *that* is another site!):
http://www.dpxsystems.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=184
I may just have to skip the hub motors and
hit the flea-markets for old cordless drills
with dead batteries...
As for Friggerand's (mis) use of "faggot" to reference MEB... I'm guessing Friggerand is British (or somewhere in the Commonwealth) where the connotation is somewhat different.
Just a guess.
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Our thanks...
You may live out in the boonies where profanity is common but even if you have 100 PhDs that does not entitled you to come to this site and use such language, as this site is visited by many young kids. You might try using something like "kadiddle" or "horsefeathers" to avoid offending many adults as well as children. Otherwise you need to find a different place to post.
Also, the country in which the server is located dictates the intended meaning, not the country of choice.
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I'm guessing Friggerand is British (or somewhere in the Commonwealth) where the connotation is somewhat different.
Well, yes, but if you strip all the layers off of a fat git you'd probably get a ...
( before anyone get an attitude, this is a quote from a britcom, Black Adder's Christmas Carol...of course if the shoe fits :) )
Dan
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Oh... boy, I guess *I* have stepped into the "kadiddle" with both feet here!
I apologize to all the children on the list for my inappropriate language. My 100 PhDs probably addled my brain (It is actually 101, but the last one is strictly honorary for being a smartapple). Or perhaps it was all the fresh mountain air... or the lack of horns honking, tires screeching, people yelling at each other, garbage rotting in the streets while everyone waits for someone else to figure out what to do about it. No excuses... mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I shall take my penance in the form of rewinding all the starter motors on all the junk cars in my redneck backyard and offering them up here for free.
No excuses for my enexcuseable use of profanity, but just to give you all a better picture of who I am: All this silence and polite neighborliness gets to me sometimes and I just have to come out with an expletive like "Sh****". Maybe I should have listened HORSEFEATHERS! to that doctor when he tried to tell me I had KADIDDLE! Tourette's... "FUDGE!"... "SHINGAURDS!"... "BULWARKS!"
As for Friggerand's use of the "F" word, only Friggerand knows what Friggerand meant, I was just offering to ecyclist who appeared to take his intention to be homophobic, I was just offering that it in some places in the world, such terms have a bit more generic meaning. It was obviously intended to be dismissive and rude. It was also a very effective "hit-and-run" as I doubt "the F man" even reads this list or thread... but look at the hornet's nest he's got going here! "BUGGYWHIPS!"... "SHORTBREAD!"
-OffList
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I'm guessing Friggerand is British (or somewhere in the Commonwealth) where the connotation is somewhat different.
Well, yes, but if you strip all the layers off of a fat git you'd probably get a ...
( before anyone get an attitude, this is a quote from a britcom, Black Adder's Christmas Carol...of course if the shoe fits :) )
Dan
If the shoe fits be aware that assuming it fits or trying to see if fits someone else on this site may be considered solicitaion, especially of childen, which is also not tolerated on this site and a misdemeaner I might add, if not a felony in most states and possibly in the UK as well.
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MEB -
So, I'm pretty lazy (those 101 PhDs do tend to bog the ole brain down a bit) and don't feel inclined to go back and gather up all the posts to this forum that support what I'm about to say, or more precisely "ask".
Lots of folks have been down on you for acting like a self-appointed list-owner or moderator and defer to the unseen, unheard Philip (Yao) as somehow the person in charge.
Am I correct in understanding/guessing that you originally set up a server or a system for supporting customer discussions on a system of your own which (only?) GoldenMotor.Com recognized the value of and chose to start a customer forum on/with/under?
If this is the case, I think all those who claim your role here is strictly self-appointed/annointed are a little off base. If you were somehow the originator of this system, then I can see why you would be so protective/covetous of it.
So what I'm asking is: Is this forum literally of your creation (with the help/support/encouragement of Golden Motors/Philip Yao)?
That said (asked), I have to say that your jumping my Shingaurds over the colloquial and innocent use of the term "Shit" (there I go using it again, and I didn't even bump up the font-size or color so maybe the other children on this list won't see it buried in all this adult-talk), reinforces the view that you are a bit erratic.
Your obvious knowledge and helpfulness cannot be denied even if others here might actually have more/different things to offer (that is the point of public forum in my opinion) that contradicts some of your opinions or knowledge. Your apparent need to jump *someone* every few posts seems to be what everyone is reacting to.
All the "jumping" and "reacting" (aka "scrapping") makes for a colorful place... as I likened it before to a dive-bar in a strange city... but I wonder if that is really the tone you are seeking (if in fact, this forum is "yours" in the sense I suggest above).
By the way, all the "scrapping" going on here is much less appropriate for children than the occasional use of terms like "sh!t" (and "faggot").
Scrap away...
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OffGrid
There are as many negative motives for visiting a public forum as there are positive. It is everyone's duty who uses this site to be on guard not to permit anything to transpire which might be harmful to children or offensive to adults. What is allowed to go on here is reflective of the company, myself, other members and Philip Yao.
As for site history this (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=7.0) may answer your question.
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MEB was the originator of the forum. He is the one who prompted Goldenmotor to create it and he also wrote the current installation guide (see the link in MEB's signature). He has grand ideas for improving Goldenmotor's perception in the community. I think he sees c-lyte and their ilk as the overpriced "Nordstroms" fashion brands (overpriced for needless refinement and a "prestige" name), where the goldenmotor is more of a K-mart special (does the job, has a good price/value ratio, but isn't always perfect).
He is obviously protective of his baby. Unfortunately he does so with all the loving care of a rabid she-bear. We've watched him lock horns with about 3 to 5 users so far. Most of the time he is a helpful resource and has been pretty welcoming to technical questions, which is his stated intent for the forum. Things go south when he perceives an attack on goldenmotor (although the attack sometimes falls between constructive criticism and a gripe), feels he is being contradicted without reasonable evidence, or when a thread is speculative.
I blame the whole David G. Thornton toussle on a brief schizophrenic episode ;D
Endless sphere has a lot of good discussion, and some of its own flame wars even. Can't say that I've seen them trash all over goldenmotor's products, just the same warning you'll get from this forum... buying a goldenmotor is a mixed bag. You get a good price, but be prepared to roll up your sleeves and do some troubleshooting on what you get.
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Not to worry anyone... my next doctor's appointment is in about.. one week. Although I ran out of medication I am expecting a refill any day now when the only courier brave enough to knock on my door returns from vacation. ;D
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He is obviously protective of his baby. Unfortunately he does so with all the loving care of a rabid she-bear. We've watched him lock horns with about 3 to 5 users so far. Most of the time he is a helpful resource and has been pretty welcoming to technical questions, which is his stated intent for the forum. Things go south when he perceives an attack on goldenmotor (although the attack sometimes falls between constructive criticism and a gripe), feels he is being contradicted without reasonable evidence, or when a thread is speculative.
It does not matter to me if he started it or not, my only gripe is his stubbornly clinging to falsehood. And that would not even matter if he was not promoting falsehood as fact. He insists on calculating motor resistance from voltage and current which you can not do when there is elsewhere for the power to go, in this case the wheel and sordid mechanical losses. And he insists that in the face of proof from golden's own performance curves, while at the same time claiming that his "college physics course" proved the nonexistence of perpetual motion machines!
Dan
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Dan
First, you have not clarified for us in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36. Until you do this I am not interested in addressing your claims.
Second, instead of expressing yourself in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion regarding your method of calculating winding resistance for the HBS-36 you have tried to assert your unestablished claims by being confrontational. Until you realize that this is not the gym at a tech school but an owner's forum hosted by the manufacturer of a working BLDC motor which you neither own or have taken apart it is clear you have no other basis for being confrontational than to disrupt interaction between other members on this site; behavior which is commonly known to characterize a troll.
Third, you have erroneously assumed from a discussion between two other members regarding phase power lead resistance that the calculations involved in this discussion have reached the point of covering actual motor load resistance to this point in time, versus a discussion of phase power lead capacity in which the current carrying capacity of 16AWG wire size derived for line voltage is being explored in the discussion to reach a common understanding of phase power lead capacity prior to consideration of application to a specific winding resistance load at a specified voltage or current. Your erroneous assumption and comments based thereon have forced us to waste time and effort addressing your claims.
Forth, you have failed to consider results when specific design criteria undergoes conditions outside the design criteria, ie, the voltage and power generated by a BLDC motor, designed for 320 RPM and 700 watts peak, being rotated at 400 RPM.
While we are discussing another aspect of wiring you might then do us the favor of providing us with a clear, step wise and detailed description of how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36 in comparison of any other BLDC motor of your choosing so that we might actually have something from you that we can address.
Thanks.
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Dan
First, you have not clarified for us in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36. Until you do this I am not interested in addressing your claims.
Second, instead of expressing yourself in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion regarding your method of calculating winding resistance for the HBS-36 you have tried to assert your unestablished claims by being confrontational. Until you realize that this is not the gym at a tech school but an owner's forum hosted by the manufacturer of a working BLDC motor which you neither own or have taken apart it is clear you have no other basis for being confrontational than to disrupt interaction between other members on this site; behavior which is commonly known to characterize a troll.
Third, you have erroneously assumed from a discussion between two other members regarding phase power lead resistance that the calculations involved in this discussion have reached the point of covering actual motor load resistance to this point in time, versus a discussion of phase power lead capacity in which the current carrying capacity of 16AWG wire size derived for line voltage is being explored in the discussion to reach a common understanding of phase power lead capacity prior to consideration of application to a specific winding resistance load at a specified voltage or current. Your erroneous assumption and comments based thereon have forced us to waste time and effort addressing your claims.
Forth, you have failed to consider results when specific design criteria undergoes conditions outside the design criteria, ie, the voltage and power generated by a BLDC motor, designed for 320 RPM and 700 watts peak, being rotated at 400 RPM.
While we are discussing another aspect of wiring you might then do us the favor of providing us with a clear, step wise and detailed description of how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36 in comparison of any other BLDC motor of your choosing so that we might actually have something from you that we can address.
Thanks.
Actually I had gone into it here: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3.45 ... and more specifically in this very thread reply #13:
Therefore if the speed of the HBS-36 motor drops from 308RPM to 216RPM we get that it's internal resistance is (36V (the curve test voltage) x (1-216RPM/308RPM)) (the voltage across internal resistance) / 20.5A (the full load test current) = 0.5 ohms
As a proof you go back the other way - P=I²R ... 20.5A²0.5=210W which coincidentally is just about the difference between the curve input power of 730W minus the curve output power of 509W.
You can NOT calculate resistance base on voltage and current in a motor with out deducting the BEMF, which you previously admitted is always there, from the voltage.
Likewise, you can NOT calculate resistance from power without first deducting the power that is converted to mechanical energy.
Dan
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These references are not suitable to me since they were presented in a confrontational manner, which prevents them from being considered or even read.
You need to do as I ask or accept the fact that further comment from you merits no response from me.
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These references are not suitable to me since they were presented in a confrontational manner, which prevents them from being considered or even read.
You need to do as I ask or accept the fact that further comment from you merits no response from me.
No they are not...they are statements of fact that I initially started posting very simply and you rejected them out of hand with out even looking. It was only after you started your name calling that things escalated.
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Dan, you are still being confrontational.
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Dan, you are still being confrontational.
Not at all...I am being thoroughly frustrated.
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Think of it this way... you have an opinion or point of view that you want to share with me and others. You have come here to do this. We are happy to listen and consider what you have to say and to interact and respond when response is merited. As an online publisher we have to decide not only which authors and which submissions do and do not merit publication, but which merit interaction and replies.
Now imagine going to a publisher to have him publish whatever work you have done. What do you think the first question will be that he asks himself about your work and about yourself. Getting the idea now? If you call him a jackass because there were other people in the office he was waiting to see first then what do you expect him to do? Surely you do not expect him to put you at the front of the line rather than considering other authors and their works first?
You have the opportunity to express your ideas in a manner that everyone can understand without presenting your ideas in a confrontational manner.
No one is stopping your from doing this but you, yourself.
It is clear to me however that what you want to do is to wrestle with the publisher rather than publishing your ideas, so your submissions are of negative interest to me.
And lets face it, the world is full of electronic engineers, some of whom may have already published whatever it is you have to say.
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In your case, Dave, I recall you instigating a confrontation by making several inflammatory comments in your response to my legitimate offer of help in not only obtaining an ebike kit but the one you actually needed. I also made the mistake of responding to your inquiries regarding other issues in response to a very innocent looking post. In fact I almost made the same mistake again by providing you with a piece of helpful information in response to the message you posted a few minutes ago regarding the batteries you received. But ya know, Dave, I gave it a second thought and now I am glad I did.
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With your attitude Dave maybe you should use a car and not an ebike when you leave home for work. A friend of mine who pretty much had the same attitude as you and use to ride his bike to work left some papers at home and caught a cab home only to find a car parked in his driveway and another man in the house.
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Hey, its your home life, not mine. ;D ...Besides, you need a baby sitter, not tech support.
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>There are as many negative motives for visiting a public forum as there are positive. It is everyone's duty who uses > his site to be on guard not to permit anything to transpire which might be harmful to children or offensive to adults. > What is allowed to go on here is reflective of the company, myself, other members and Philip Yao.
In that spirit, I am on guard and in an attemp to not permit certain things to transpire, I strongly recommend the following:
1) next time someone uses a slang term such as "sh*t" which you believe is offensive and/or harmful to children, *don't* repeat it in the admonishment in a large font and garish color.. This takes a minor issue and all but guarantees that it will not be overlooked.
2) Quit jumping people so quickly... I've read most of the messages here, including the earliest ones and two themes emerge strongly. You are very helpful. You seem to need to correct people regularly for the barest of infractions, real or imagined.
The latter is harmful to children and offensive to adults. It reflects badly on the company, yourself, other members and Philip Yao. Friggerand essentially tried to tell you this in as strong of terms as he could. Dave and Dan (and others?) have also tried to tell you this. You just raised the volume of your diatribe against them.
If you have a chemical imbalance, get back on your meds. If it is just fatigue or hypoglycemia, take a nap or eat an orange before you post. This is a valuable forum and you are providing a valuable service but your erratic style is only going to continue to "harm children and offend adults"...
Meanwhile I will go back and play with my cordless drill, my windmills, and a few dozen other projects that don't involve listening to gratuitous abuse over relatively trivial affronts. I might even buy a Goldenmotor hub motor. We will see.
Good Luck,
- OffList
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This is personal advice normally reserved for personal messaging. Please keep this in mind if you decide to contact me in regard to personal matters again.
As for the rest allow me to clarify for you the basis and purpose of this forum.
Unlike other forums where there is no goal or a sales goal, this forum was started with several other specific goals in mind.
The Simple Machines Forum technology was chosen not by me but by someone else associated with the company and its boiler plate stuff was not removed, namely the "Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board. " banner.
I did not object or ask that it be changed because in addition to the somewhat unique goal of a company allowing owners of its products to interact on a forum hosted on its web site the company also had the goal in mind of being able to monitor comments, questions and discussions as part of its own research and development program.
I was curious, in addition, as to any pattern that might be related to specific product defects, as well as hoping to find owners interested in mods.
Another goal was to have an owner question database upon which to base an ebike product manual as well as for writing a FAQ.
This is quite different than a company providing a forum on line for the purpose of attracting sales like the playgrounds found in front of MacDonald's, Burger King or your local drive-in theater concession area to help draw customers in for the purpose bringing them close enough for the aroma of a hot dog and a salesman to grab.
Consequently the issues you have raised with me are distorted by the fact that while you are use to forums that exist for the purpose of finding new customers to sell products to this forum exists for the purpose of permitting owners of the company's products to interact for the purpose of giving and getting assistance with technical problems from each other.
The great majority of persons dissatisfied with this site then are those persons who are expecting to come here and be treated in a special way by a salesman on the basis that they are here to buy or have already purchased a Golden kit. This is especially true of ebike dealers who have purchased 10 to 50 kits and feel they are entitled to free technical support and have the right to use the forum to tap and solicit customers, but again this is not the purpose of this forum.
Since you and others are use to the other type of forum I will ask Philip Yao to create a non-owner based, prospective customer salesroom type forum which exists solely for the purpose of attracting new customers so they can interact with a salesman who can sell them a golden kit. That would also help me by separating sales from this special form of tech support and keep me from having to answer sales questions or from having to have anything to do with sales.
Thanks for your input.
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Like I said before, I enjoy spirited discourse, however, I can not condone foul language or finger pointing.(fa***t in the context was meant to be offensive and not the butt of a cigarette) If their is a personal axe to grind, please take it outside guys! This forum is like a debate which but sides can logically make their case, and when it is over, still respect each other when it is over. I have done the with MEB several times and right or wrong I still respect his point of view.
I am aware that Patrick has some qualifed knowlege of Golden motor products since he has been with them for sometime and yes he is protective just like a tried and true FORD blue man hates Chevys and alike. We all have an option to stay away from this forum and/or paticipate.( I personally have ate my words more than once here)
So I hope we all come here to learn and solve our golden motor problems and at the same time have a favorable outcomes. :) :D
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Calling me a $(&*@#% in high school was responsible for my realizing the need to become financially independent just in case a prospective employer would not hire me because of a wrongful comment someone made so that now when someone calls me a name I just smile and thank them silently for inspiring me to become financially independent. I am extremely appreciative now whenever I hear myself called a derogatory name. ;D
Besides when a dog starts barking at me while I'm riding by on my ebike I know the owner and not the dog is to blame.
Aside from that this forum is not the place for vulgar profanities since it is hosted by Golden Motor and any post that includes vulgar profanities should be deleted along with banning repeat offenders from the forum. This is not a church but it is also not a gutter.
As for the rest of it I suppose that like anyone else I feel entitled to give as good as I get and since no one ever responds when I'm right, occasionally I have to be wrong. ;D
Now enough clarification about myself and on to other topics. ;D
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cheers for the heads up on Crystalyte will see who's best
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cheers for the heads up on Crystalyte will see who's best
The date of the post 2 above.
Reply #30 on: September 06, 2007, 05:18:10 AM »
The date of the thread creation.
« on: September 04, 2007, 09:06:13 AM »
Congratulations.
You win the GM forum post reanimation from the land of the dead award.
What ever that means. ???
Crystalyte is spam I tell ya's 8)
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friggerand makes some good points.
It is too bad that some of us who are making every attempt to take care of customer service issues have a significant amount of the traffic diverted away by the forum. Now that "we" have blown the customer out of the water, I wont have a chance to supply him with a product that up until this point was the motive power for his business.
The factory does not want to be in the customer service business. They want to engineer and build product, which is sold and maintained by the dealers. It is a prominent issue addressed in the franchise agreement. The only way I can get product at discount, is if I am willing to provide customer service. There has been a huge effort to establish a dealer network to address sales, service, and warranty issues.
Panel moderators are usually pointing the customers back to the factory for sales and support.
I will say it too, to get it out of my system. Crystalite. Unfortunately for fraggerand, he wont be able to build a cost effective system that he can sell at a profit based on the breathtaking cost of those systems. So we all lose.
If I was sensitive to colorful language, I would not be on the internet at all.
Good work team!