Myelectricbike, this is for you...pay attention Golden Motors!!

[myelectricbike]

Not to worry anyone... my next doctor's appointment is in about.. one week. Although I ran out of medication I am expecting a refill any day now when the only courier brave enough to knock on my door returns from vacation. 

[cadstarsucks]

He is obviously protective of his baby.  Unfortunately he does so with all the loving care of a rabid she-bear.  We've watched him lock horns with about 3 to 5 users so far.  Most of the time he is a helpful resource and has been pretty welcoming to technical questions, which is his stated intent for the forum.  Things go south when he perceives an attack on goldenmotor (although the attack sometimes falls between constructive criticism and a gripe), feels he is being contradicted without reasonable evidence, or when a thread is speculative.

It does not matter to me if he started it or not, my only gripe is his stubbornly clinging to falsehood.  And that would not even matter if he was not promoting falsehood as fact.  He insists on calculating motor resistance from voltage and current which you can not do when there is elsewhere for the power to go, in this case the wheel and sordid mechanical losses.  And he insists that in the face of proof from golden's own performance curves, while at the same time claiming that his "college physics course" proved the nonexistence of perpetual motion machines!

Dan

[myelectricbike]

Dan

First, you have not clarified for us in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36. Until you do this I am not interested in addressing your claims.

Second, instead of expressing yourself in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion regarding your method of calculating winding resistance for the HBS-36 you have tried to assert your unestablished claims by being confrontational. Until you realize that this is not the gym at a tech school but an owner's forum hosted by the manufacturer of a working BLDC motor which you neither own or have taken apart it is clear you have no other basis for being confrontational than to disrupt interaction between other members on this site; behavior which is commonly known to characterize a troll.

Third, you have erroneously assumed from a discussion between two other members regarding phase power lead resistance that the calculations involved in this discussion have reached the point of covering actual motor load resistance to this point in time, versus a discussion of phase power lead capacity in which the current carrying capacity of 16AWG wire size derived for line voltage is being explored in the discussion to reach a common understanding of phase power lead capacity prior to consideration of application to a specific winding resistance load at a specified voltage or current. Your erroneous assumption and comments based thereon have forced us to waste time and effort addressing your claims.

Forth, you have failed to consider results when specific design criteria undergoes conditions outside the design criteria, ie, the voltage and power generated by a BLDC motor, designed for 320 RPM and 700 watts peak, being rotated at 400 RPM.

While we are discussing another aspect of wiring you might then do us the favor of providing us with a clear, step wise and detailed description of how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36 in comparison of any other BLDC motor of your choosing so that we might actually have something from you that we can address.

Thanks.   

[cadstarsucks]

Dan

First, you have not clarified for us in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36. Until you do this I am not interested in addressing your claims.

Second, instead of expressing yourself in a clear, detailed and step wise fashion regarding your method of calculating winding resistance for the HBS-36 you have tried to assert your unestablished claims by being confrontational. Until you realize that this is not the gym at a tech school but an owner's forum hosted by the manufacturer of a working BLDC motor which you neither own or have taken apart it is clear you have no other basis for being confrontational than to disrupt interaction between other members on this site; behavior which is commonly known to characterize a troll.

Third, you have erroneously assumed from a discussion between two other members regarding phase power lead resistance that the calculations involved in this discussion have reached the point of covering actual motor load resistance to this point in time, versus a discussion of phase power lead capacity in which the current carrying capacity of 16AWG wire size derived for line voltage is being explored in the discussion to reach a common understanding of phase power lead capacity prior to consideration of application to a specific winding resistance load at a specified voltage or current. Your erroneous assumption and comments based thereon have forced us to waste time and effort addressing your claims.

Forth, you have failed to consider results when specific design criteria undergoes conditions outside the design criteria, ie, the voltage and power generated by a BLDC motor, designed for 320 RPM and 700 watts peak, being rotated at 400 RPM.

While we are discussing another aspect of wiring you might then do us the favor of providing us with a clear, step wise and detailed description of how you calculate winding resistance for the HBS-36 in comparison of any other BLDC motor of your choosing so that we might actually have something from you that we can address.

Thanks.   

Actually I had gone into it here: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3.45 ... and more specifically in this very thread reply #13:

Therefore if the speed of the HBS-36 motor drops from 308RPM to 216RPM we get that it's internal resistance is (36V (the curve test voltage) x (1-216RPM/308RPM)) (the voltage across internal resistance) / 20.5A (the full load test current) = 0.5 ohms

As a proof you go back the other way - P=I²R ...  20.5A²0.5=210W which coincidentally is just about the difference between the curve input power of 730W minus the curve output power of 509W.

You can NOT calculate resistance base on voltage and current in a motor with out deducting the BEMF, which you previously admitted is always there, from the voltage. 

Likewise, you can NOT calculate resistance from power without first deducting the power that is converted to mechanical energy.

Dan

[myelectricbike]

These references are not suitable to me since they were presented in a confrontational manner, which prevents them from being considered or even read.

You need to do as I ask or accept the fact that further comment from you merits no response from me.

[cadstarsucks]

These references are not suitable to me since they were presented in a confrontational manner, which prevents them from being considered or even read.

You need to do as I ask or accept the fact that further comment from you merits no response from me.

No they are not...they are statements of fact that I initially started posting very simply and you rejected them out of hand with out even looking.  It was only after you started your name calling that things escalated.

[myelectricbike]

Dan, you are still being confrontational.

[cadstarsucks]

Dan, you are still being confrontational.

Not at all...I am being thoroughly frustrated. 

[myelectricbike]

Think of it this way... you have an opinion or point of view that you want to share with me and others. You have come here to do this. We are happy to listen and consider what you have to say and to interact and respond when response is merited. As an online publisher we have to decide not only which authors and which submissions do and do not merit publication, but which merit interaction and replies.

Now imagine going to a publisher to have him publish whatever work you have done. What do you think the first question will be that he asks himself about your work and about yourself. Getting the idea now? If you call him a jackass because there were other people in the office he was waiting to see first then what do you expect him to do? Surely you do not expect him to put you at the front of the line rather than considering other authors and their works first?

You have the opportunity to express your ideas in a manner that everyone can understand without presenting your ideas in a confrontational manner.

No one is stopping your from doing this but you, yourself.

It is clear to me however that what you want to do is to wrestle with the publisher rather than publishing your ideas, so your submissions are of negative interest to me.

And lets face it, the world is full of electronic engineers, some of whom may have already published whatever it is you have to say.
 

[myelectricbike]

In your case, Dave, I recall you instigating a confrontation by making several inflammatory comments in your response to my legitimate offer of help in not only obtaining an ebike kit but the one you actually needed. I also made the mistake of responding to your inquiries regarding other issues in response to a very innocent looking post. In fact I almost made the same mistake again by providing you with a piece of helpful information in response to the message you posted a few minutes ago regarding the batteries you received. But ya know, Dave, I gave it a second thought and now I am glad I did.

[myelectricbike]

With your attitude Dave maybe you should use a car and not an ebike when you leave home for work. A friend of mine who pretty much had the same attitude as you and use to ride his bike to work left some papers at home and caught a cab home only to find a car parked in his driveway and another man in the house.

[myelectricbike]

Hey, its your home life, not mine. ...Besides, you need a baby sitter, not tech support.

[OffGrid]

>There are as many negative motives for visiting a public forum as there are positive. It is everyone's duty who uses > his site to be on guard not to permit anything to transpire which might be harmful to children or offensive to adults. > What is allowed to go on here is reflective of the company, myself, other members and Philip Yao.

In that spirit, I am on guard and in an attemp to not permit certain things to transpire, I strongly recommend the following:

1) next time someone uses a slang term such as "sh*t" which you believe is offensive and/or harmful to children, *don't* repeat it in the admonishment in a large font and garish color..  This takes a minor issue and all but guarantees that it will not be overlooked.

2) Quit jumping people so quickly... I've read most of the messages here, including the earliest ones and two themes emerge strongly.   You are very helpful.  You seem to need to correct people regularly for the barest of infractions, real or imagined.   

The latter is harmful to children and offensive to adults.  It reflects badly on the company, yourself, other members and Philip Yao.   Friggerand essentially tried to tell you this in as strong of terms as he could.  Dave and Dan (and others?) have also tried to tell you this.  You just raised the volume of your diatribe against them.

  If you have a chemical imbalance, get back on your meds.  If it is just fatigue or hypoglycemia, take a nap or eat an orange  before you post.   This is a valuable forum and you are providing a valuable service but your erratic style is only going to continue to "harm children and offend adults"...


Meanwhile I will go back and play with my cordless drill, my windmills, and a few dozen other projects that don't involve listening to gratuitous abuse over relatively trivial affronts.  I might even buy a Goldenmotor hub motor.  We will see.

Good Luck,
 - OffList

[myelectricbike]

This is personal advice normally reserved for personal messaging. Please keep this in mind if you decide to contact me in regard to personal matters again.

As for the rest allow me to clarify for you the basis and purpose of this forum.

Unlike other forums where there is no goal or a sales goal, this forum was started with several other specific goals in mind.

The Simple Machines Forum technology was chosen not by me but by someone else associated with the company and its boiler plate stuff was not removed, namely the "Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board. " banner.

I did not object or ask that it be changed because in addition to the somewhat unique goal of a company allowing owners of its products to interact on a forum hosted on its web site the company also had the goal in mind of being able to monitor comments, questions and discussions as part of its own research and development program.

I was curious, in addition, as to any pattern that might be related to specific product defects, as well as hoping to find owners interested in mods.

Another goal was to have an owner question database upon which to base an ebike product manual as well as for writing a FAQ.

This is quite different than a company providing a forum on line for the purpose of attracting sales like the playgrounds found in front of MacDonald's, Burger King or your local drive-in theater concession area to help draw customers in for the purpose bringing them close enough for the aroma of a hot dog and a salesman to grab.

Consequently the issues you have raised with me are distorted by the fact that while you are use to forums that exist for the purpose of finding new customers to sell products to this forum exists for the purpose of permitting owners of the company's products to interact for the purpose of giving and getting assistance with technical problems from each other.

The great majority of persons dissatisfied with this site then are those persons who are expecting to come here and be treated in a special way by a salesman on the basis that they are here to buy or have already purchased a Golden kit. This is especially true of ebike dealers who have purchased 10 to 50 kits and feel they are entitled to free technical support and have the right to use the forum to tap and solicit customers, but again this is not the purpose of this forum.

Since you and others are use to the other type of forum I will ask Philip Yao to create a non-owner based, prospective customer salesroom type forum which exists solely for the purpose of attracting new customers so they can interact with a salesman who can sell them a golden kit. That would also help me by separating sales from this special form of tech support and keep me from having to answer sales questions or from having to have anything to do with sales.

Thanks for your input.

[mustangman]

   Like I said before, I enjoy spirited discourse, however, I can not condone foul language or finger pointing.(fa***t in the context was meant to be offensive and not the butt of a cigarette) If their is a personal axe to grind, please take it outside guys!  This forum is like a debate which but sides can logically make their case, and when it is over, still respect each other when it is over. I have done the with MEB several times and right or wrong I still respect his point of view.
    I am aware that Patrick has some qualifed knowlege of Golden motor products since he has been with them for sometime and yes he is protective just like a tried and true FORD blue man hates Chevys and alike. We all have an option to stay away from this forum and/or paticipate.( I personally have ate my words more than once here)
     So I hope we all come here to learn and solve our golden motor problems and at the same time have a favorable  outcomes.