Author Topic: Newly installed Magic Pie 5 having a problem after performing flawlessly  (Read 4681 times)

Offline ToddsMagicPie5

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Hi, I'm the new owner of a Magic Pie 5 36v rear hub kit with a new 36v LI battery , I recently installed it on my Popal Cangoo cargo bike that I use to haul the kids to school, cruise around town on, and grab groceries/beer occasionally. The installation was smooth and straightforward, and the system has been a joy to operate for the last month. I've had a bit of a setback recently after using the bike daily for a month and about 50km total ,when I lost power when riding to school, I hit a rough patch of road and went to brake when all of a sudden ,no juice, the LED battery lights went out, and no thumb throttle response. I reset the battery switch off then back on, and the LED's came back on. I pedaled away and went to depress the throttle and lost power again. I manually pedaled the rest of my journey and put the bike away. The next morning I jacked up the rear and turned on the system and noticed I have a pulsing/flashing battery gauge indicator light and the rear motor spins in sync with the pulse/flash of the lights when the throttle is pushed but only when slammed on to full position, any other position and the motor dies, and I have to reset the battery to start it all over. I replaced the throttle today but no changes. Any ideas? I've included a video of what is happening. Thanks in advance for any tips.

Offline Bikemad

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Hi Todd andto the forum.

I am unable to see your video as it won't work on either of my Windows 7 PCs, but from your description, it sounds like a poor connection on the battery supply (could be the main battery connector or keyswitch contacts etc.) or possibly a problem with the battery's BMS due to water ingress.

Which battery do you have?

Alan
 
P.S. Try attaching the "MP5 Running.mov" file from your desktop instead of the Movie Maker project file.   ;)
Quote
A WLMP file is a movie project file created by Windows Live Movie Maker, a program that allows users to create their own movies and slideshows. It contains movie transitions, music, and effects as well as links to digital photos or videos. WLMP files are used to create videos but they do not contain actual video.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 10:11:11 PM by Bikemad »

Offline ToddsMagicPie5

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Hi Alan,

  Thanks for the reply, here's a snippet of whats going on.  The battery is a 36v 10.4ah battery AfterPartz brand...Amazon purchase, it's new but it may be junk. That may be the problem. I haven't encountered any rain or water with this bike yet. So I'll rule out water intrusion. All the connections seem tight.

Offline Tommycat

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First thought.  Loss of power under load... check battery connector, wiring connections.
Anyway to check the amp draw on the battery?

Second, it's hard to see, but are your unterminated wires properly secured? Separate, isolate, and insulate! 4 wire cable on top harness. and 4 wire cable on controller harness.













Regards,
T.C.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 01:14:57 AM by Tommycat »
See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub E-Bike build  HERE.

Offline Bikemad

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Sometimes, it's so much better when you can see a video of what is happening.   ;D

After watching your video, it appears to be a battery problem (or to be more specific, its BMS) as the battery voltage is fluctuating so smoothly and regularly.

I have checked the specifications for the AfterPartz 36v 10.4ah batteries and here is what I have discovered:
Quote from: afterpartz.com
Specification :
Cell Brand ?Samsung ICR18650-26F With Underwriters Laboratories Certification
Nominal voltage: 36V (Mind the voltage of your controller?
Really Rated capacity: 10.4Ah
Operating temperature: -20 °C to 60 °C
Charge temperature: 0 °C to 45 °C
Storage temperature: -20 °C to 45 °C
Operating current: 10A
Peak current: 15A


They produce three styles of battery packs (Fish, Flasche and Mini DIY) but all three have the same cells and current specification.

I don't know whether you have changed the current settings in the controller, but normally the Main Battery Current (A) is set to 25A by default. This means that the current being drawn by the MP5 is nearly 70% more than the battery's peak current, and 150% more than its continuous current rating.  :o

Theoretically, this should not have caused a problem with the battery, as they also clearly state that it has "Over current protection" which should automatically limit the current to prevent the battery from being overloaded.

Obviously, the battery is not able to supply a Magic Pie with the required current, but what I don't understand is why it has only just developed this pulsing problem after a month of use.  ::)
Perhaps the over current protection is simply not robust enough for intensive use?

Also, the wheel spinning in the video should be drawing a lot less than 10 Amps as there is no load on it, so it should not be triggering the current protection function of the battery's BMS, which in my opinion, is producing the pulsing effect.

I am now convinced that this is a battery/BMS fault and definitely not a motor or controller issue, as the battery voltage was noticeably sagging while the motor rpm decreased (with no load applied) which is the exact opposite of what would happen if the throttle was held in the maximum position and the controller was regulating the power/speed of the motor.

I am not sure if the battery's BMS has simply failed (greatly reduced current output) because it has been working too hard over the last month, or whether the regen current may also have had a detrimental affect upon it.  :-\

Either way, I looks like you now need to find a more suitable battery as a replacement.  :(

Alan
 
 

Offline ToddsMagicPie5

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Makes sense Alan, thanks for doing the homework. I ordered a new battery this morning and figured I’d try it again. I got a 36v 17ah and will double check I didn’t change anything in the controller settings, pretty sure it’s all still “stock” except the regen braking setting which I disabled to do a little more testing in the garage. Stay tuned, I’ll report back with my findings next week!

Offline ToddsMagicPie5

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Alan,
  Am I making a mistake by using this battery? Will I end up with the same outcome, most likely? If so, Could you recommend a sufficient battery pack for the 24” 36v rear hub MP5? I can return this order and go a different route if needed. Thanks in advance

Offline Bikemad

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Hi Todd,

I couldn't find any power output details on that particular battery but I did find this on the YosePower website which is the same voltage and capacity:




10A continuous and 20A peak is still not really enough for a Magic Pie unless you reduce the current setting in the controller to prevent it from overloading the battery.

If your old battery was repaired so that it worked like it did originally, you could use both batteries wired in parallel to produce a 36V 34Ah pack that should handle your Magic Pie without being overloaded.

The GM 36V 12Ah LiFePO4 pack can deliver 36A continuous and 60A peak, and can also cope with up to 24A of charging current (making it suitable for the MP5's regen current):


Click here for more details.


Although the GM pack is smaller capacity (12Ah instead of 17Ah) and more expensive than the YosePower pack, it states >2000 cycles instead of 500>60%!

In my opinion, you tend to get what you pay for, and a cheap battery is cheap for a reason.  ;)

Alan
 

Offline ToddsMagicPie5

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Alan,
 Thanks for all the advice, I agree about getting what you pay for. I have replaced the battery but bought quality this go round, I got a commuter model 36v 15ah Lifepo4 battery from a company here in Germany, MTML Trading. It remedies the problem I was having with surfing and pulsing lights. I gave it a good test ride today and I do believe all is well. This leads me to my next question, will the regen braking from the MP5 do any damage or detriment to this type of battery? I have it enabled at the moment. Thanks in advance of this is another newbie question. Cheers!  -Todd