Do I have everything I need?

[Mogal]

Hello all,

This will be my first build, and would like to make sure I have everything required to get going.
I also have a few questions with the kits, and options... First the list of parts:
 - Magic Pie 4 (VECTOR) 26 Inch Rear Conversion Kit
 - USB Programming Cable for Magic Pie 4 VECTOR and Smart Pie 4 VECTOR Controllers
 - 48V10AH LiFePO4 Aluminum Cased Battery
 - Standard Battery Rack

Questions:
 - from the knowledge base, does the freewheel not come with the kit?
  - if it does, how many teeth are there?
- does the kit support both caliper and disk brakes?
 - does the kit come with the mounting hardware for the disk brake?

I'm sure there will be more to come...
I hope to purchase within the next 2 weeks or so.

Thanks!
Chris

[Bikemad]

- from the knowledge base, does the freewheel not come with the kit?

The kits do not come with a freewheel as standard, but I suspect that many of the dealers will keep them in stock.

- if it does, how many teeth are there?

As the motor can make the bike a lot faster, you ideally want a freewheel with high gearing so your legs will be able to keep up more easily, so a small sprocket on the highest gear is recommended (and a large chainwheel helps too).
DNP produce freewheels with 11-32 tooth sprockets in both 7 and 8 speed versions, check out Gary's website for more details

- does the kit support both caliper and disk brakes?

The Magic Pie and Smart Pie kits with laced rims (spoked) can support either disc, caliper or "V" brakes, but I suspect it might be best to use disc brakes with some of the cast alloy rims as the rim's side contact area may not be ideal for the brake blocks to rub against.

- does the kit come with the mounting hardware for the disk brake?

No, the 6 fixing bolts for the disc are not supplied with the kit, and you need to make sure that the bolts you purchase are not too long or they can jam against the controller and cause damage.

Do I have everything I need?

The Magic Pies produce a lot of torque and I would therefore recommend that you fit at least one Torque Arm (and I strongly advise fitting a pair if the frame is aluminium) to enable all the torque to be safely restrained, preventing possible damage to your frame and/or motor (and possibly yourself too).

Alan
 

[Mogal]

Thank you Alan.
Great info and muchly appreciated!

This got out of hand quickly, as not only did I buy the Magic Pie 4 (VECTOR) 700c, but I bought a new bike to put it on !!!
I figured it would be better suited to a more road worthy bike, and not a mountain bike, as it will be a commuter.
I wasn't able to find the screws, but I'm hoping that the freewheel and brakes that came with the bike will port straight over without issues.
I also added a torque arm to the order.

Thank you, and I will post follow-ups for those interested.
Chris

[Bikemad]

Chris, your new bike is more likely to be fitted with a splined cassette gear cluster rather than the older style threaded freewheel unit.
Unfortunately, if this is the case, you will still need to purchase a suitable threaded freewheel to thread onto the MP4.



The above picture shows the difference between freewheels and cassettes.

Alan
 

[Bikemad]

Another item you may also want to consider is a "slime filled" self-sealing inner tube to greatly reduce the likelihood of puncture repairs:


I have Slime tubes fitted to all of my Magic Pies and I have not had to repair a puncture on any of them yet.


The only time I have ever been let down with a flat tyre on an electric bike was when my front mounted Smart Pie 4 was initially installed with a standard inner tube.
But it wasn't actually punctured by something I had ridden over, the tube had popped inside the rim because I had removed the rim tape to re-spoke the wheel with the spoke heads on the inside, and I somehow managed to fit the tube and tyre without refitting the all important protective rim tape!

Alan
 

[Mogal]

Here is the bike I picked up...

CROSSTRAIL DISC
http://www.specialized.com/ca/en/bikes/multi-use/crosstrail/crosstrail-disc

I don't have allot of knowledge on bikes, so I hope I made the right choice with this bike for an easy kit add-on.

[Hastings]

sounds like good specs, Might be possible to fit a  8 speed cassette but a thinner 7 speed is ok. you should not  bend or expand rear fork to fit a e-wheel on an Alu frame. Besides  you will have more gears than you need anyway.

BB is square taper  which means you can retain the crankset is you later chose to install a Thun BB torque sensor.

I find front shocks necessary after electrifying  or I loose my thumbs on the poor Swedish bike paths. Speed is higher and your bike is heavier. Give battery placement a thought with power and weight in back  your steering controls suffer.

You need to replace the  brake handles but by choosing a mechanical system is is reasonably straightforward

[Mogal]

Thanks for the info.
I've looked into the freewheel, I'll need to pick a new one up.
Still not sure which one yet, as I don't know what sizing I'm dealing with yet.

With the wieght distribution, I understand the wieght differences, but there is minimal options for battery placement.
I ordered the rear wheel battery rack to mount the battery, and eventually use panniers for carrying books and the like.
Is there a mid frame option for mounting the battery, say in the to sets of bolts in the frame?
Or is this where one has to adapt and overcome the problem? (Googling didn't give much for options)

As for the brakes, yes, I made sure I had mechanical disc brakes for this build. My other bike has hydraulics.

I should be recieving the parts late next week for the start of the build!

Can't wait!!   

[Mogal]

Hello again,

I've found a few other websites now that have shown ideas for mounting batteries.
I think I'll still mount everything on the back rack first, then as I get comfortable with
the system/setup, I'll relocate the battery to inside the frame.

I haven't been able to find any info on programming the controller?
(No pdf instruction sheets) Just a couple videos, that doesn't explain much.
Also, the videos are older versions of the software.
Also wondering what kind of settings will need to be changed to keep the 1000w motor within the legal range?
A good source of info here: http://www.meetup.com/Electric-Bicycles/messages/boards/

Sorry for the questions... I'll have more to come once I get the kit in hand.
K, gunna go spend some more time with google 

[Bikemad]

I haven't been able to find any info on programming the controller?
(No pdf instruction sheets) Just a couple videos, that doesn't explain much.
Also, the videos are older versions of the software.
Also wondering what kind of settings will need to be changed to keep the 1000w motor within the legal range?

Hi Chris,

Check out the Programming the Vector Controller thread for more information on programming the vector controller along with Gary's video.

The settings will depend upon the specific legal requirements in your particular country, and the main settings affecting legal compliance will be the "Maximum Forward speed (rpm)" and the "Battery draw current" which will need to be reduced to the required levels.

The correct rpm setting for the "Maximum Forward speed (rpm)" can be determined with the aid of this spreadsheet. Simply enter the maximum permitted speed in the highlighted cell under "Required Speed" in the lower section and then read off the "Wheel rpm" for your particular wheel (tyre) size in the relevant column for either mph or km/h.

The "Battery draw current" can be calculated by dividing the permitted wattage by the battery voltage and then multiplying the result by 1.25 to allow for the difference between the consumed power and the actual output power at a typical 80% motor efficiency.

The following example uses the ludicrously low UK limits:
Maximum permitted Speed = 15 mph
Maximum permitted Power = 200 Watts
Wheel size = 700c
Battery Voltage = 48 Volts

"Maximum Forward speed (rpm)" = Wheel rpm @ 15 mph  for a 700c wheel = 187 (Result obtained from spreadsheet)

"Battery draw current" = (200/48) x 1.25 = 4.17 x 1.25 = 5.21 Amps

You can double check the power results like this if you wish:
Power Output (Watts) = Volts x Amps x Motor Efficiency = 48 x 5.21 x 80% = 200 Watts

Alan

EDIT:
The current vector controllers have a 10A minimum "Battery draw current" setting so this is what you will need to set it at.
Check out this post for more details.

[Mogal]

Okay, I have the kit installed, and today I tried to check out the software side of things.
Doesn't seem to want to install the USB drivers on a Windows 7 64bit OS.

When I plug in, the USB seems to detect, and comes up on com6.
But within the Pi-800.exe software, ONLY com5 shows...

So I cannot connect.

Thoughts?

I followed this vid: (noticed the 32bit OS in the vid)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahcEXpMBxuA

[Bikemad]

You must connect the USB lead and wait for the port to be allocated before you open the programming software, otherwise the software will be unable to see the com port.

I receive an error message with my LogView charge monitoring software indicating that it cannot find the required com port if I open the program before the charger's USB lead is connected.

If your program was already open before you connected the USB interface lead, simply close the program and then reopen it again.

Give it a try and see if the correct com port appears in the drop down list.

Alan
 

[Mogal]

Still having a problem here.
I have the drivers installed, but it comes up and says they are unsigned.
- There is a yellow triangle icon over the usb port.

Without this corrected, I can not continue.
and I have no idea how/where to start to get this connected

[Bikemad]

Chris, the only thing I can think of is to download the USB driver from the GM website and then extract the CH341SER.EXE program from the USB-Driver.RAR file and place it on your desktop.

With the USB cable plugged into the PC, go to device manager and right click on the USB-SERIAL CH340 port and then "Uninstall" it, making sure you check the option to "Delete the driver software for this device." before clicking the "OK" button. You may have to reboot the PC to complete the removal.

When it has been completely uninstalled, unplug the USB cable and then run the CH341SER.EXE program from your desktop before plugging the USB lead in again and hopefully Windows will then be able to install the driver correctly.

The cable will hopefully be recognised and the COM port should then be selectable from the drop down menu within the program software, even if the cable is not connected to the controller.

Please let me know if removing and reinstalling the driver software solves the problem.

Alan
 

[Mogal]

Well, I gave up!
No matter what I do I CANNOT get my laptop to connect to the controller 

So I plugged it into my main PC, and VOLA! It was there... err.

So either way, I'm connected now, just need an idea on how to adjust the
brake regen settings and max speed (and or any other safety settings)

Seems to have allot of drag when freewheeling and the power is on.
Shut the power off, and it freewheels pretty good.

I'll post more after I get things better set up.