Help :( MagicPie Wiring

[MonkeyMagic]

Hello

This is my first post here, to be honest I was happy to find a dedicated forum for info and advice !
Long story short my problem has stemmed from a throttle connection problem and damaged 'fool proof' connector.

I'm not sure if the controller is damaged now as one of the pins bent in the connector so I still don't know if it has shorted another. After searching this forum for a similar problem, I thought it would be best to put in a post.

Where I'm at is hard-wiring the connector from the motor to my throttle cable.

I did have connections I could read on my multi-meter marked however, I don't think they are correct. I'm hoping someone has purchased a Magic Pie recently and have the same color wiring that has them marked.

Here is what I have found: (In trial I have had the motor running at full speed and "just rolling" speed, but not with throttle; so motor is working)

Using Black as GND - (Throttle Disconnected)
BLACK= Gnd
RED = +48.3V
PURPLE = +0.00/0.01V
BROWN/MAROON = +0.00/0.01V
WHITE = +0.00/0.01V
GREEN = -4.9V (negative)
YELLOW = 0V
BLUE = -4.9V (negative)

Using Green/Blue as GND  (Throttle Disconnected)
BLACK= +4.9V
RED = +53.5V
PURPLE = +0.00
BROWN/MAROON = +4.6V
WHITE = +4.6V
GREEN = Gnd
YELLOW = +4.9V
BLUE = 0v (Gnd?)

Using Green/Blue as GND  (*Throttle Connection unknown*)
BLACK= +4.9V
RED = +53.5V
PURPLE = +0.00
BROWN/MAROON = +0.00/+0.08V
WHITE = +0.00/+0.08V
GREEN = Gnd
YELLOW = +0.00/+0.08V
BLUE = 0v (Gnd?)

All other connection variations result in opposites or no reading. I'm not sure if I have damaged the controller already, if not I am hoping I can get some help if anyone can offer advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers & sorry for the big post!
Rodge

[Hardcore]

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=1567.15

[Leslie]

Hello

This is my first post here, to be honest I was happy to find a dedicated forum for info and advice !
Long story short my problem has stemmed from a throttle connection problem and damaged 'fool proof' connector.

I'm not sure if the controller is damaged now as one of the pins bent in the connector so I still don't know if it has shorted another. After searching this forum for a similar problem, I thought it would be best to put in a post.

Where I'm at is hard-wiring the connector from the motor to my throttle cable.

I did have connections I could read on my multi-meter marked however, I don't think they are correct. I'm hoping someone has purchased a Magic Pie recently and have the same color wiring that has them marked.

Here is what I have found: (In trial I have had the motor running at full speed and "just rolling" speed, but not with throttle; so motor is working)

Using Black as GND - (Throttle Disconnected)
BLACK= Gnd
RED = +48.3V
PURPLE = +0.00/0.01V
BROWN/MAROON = +0.00/0.01V
WHITE = +0.00/0.01V
GREEN = -4.9V (negative)
YELLOW = 0V
BLUE = -4.9V (negative)

Using Green/Blue as GND  (Throttle Disconnected)
BLACK= +4.9V
RED = +53.5V
PURPLE = +0.00
BROWN/MAROON = +4.6V
WHITE = +4.6V
GREEN = Gnd
YELLOW = +4.9V
BLUE = 0v (Gnd?)

Using Green/Blue as GND  (*Throttle Connection unknown*)
BLACK= +4.9V
RED = +53.5V
PURPLE = +0.00
BROWN/MAROON = +0.00/+0.08V
WHITE = +0.00/+0.08V
GREEN = Gnd
YELLOW = +0.00/+0.08V
BLUE = 0v (Gnd?)

All other connection variations result in opposites or no reading. I'm not sure if I have damaged the controller already, if not I am hoping I can get some help if anyone can offer advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers & sorry for the big post!
Rodge

I hope this helps.

I've noted the connector/wire colours in the Magic Pie kit which I hope someone finds useful if they cut off the connectors like I did!  

There are prizes for the person who can tell me what the spare yellow wire from the Magic Pie controller does?

Magic Pie Connectors/Colours (Wire Colours)
-------------------------------------------
Multi-core Cable from Wheel/Pie:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin = Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (black/orange+rusty red)
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control (black/grey)
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (black/blue)
White 3-pin = Pedelec (red/black/brown)
Red 2-pin = LED lights power supply (rusty red+black)

Cable from Throttle:
Black 3-pin = Throttle (red/white/black)
Yellow 2-pin =  Throttle Batt. Level LEDs (green/black)
No connector = Light Switch/Red Button (yellow/brown)

Cable from Brakes:
Blue 2-pin = Brake Cutoff Switches (red/blue)

Cable from Extra-Handlebar Buttons:
Green 2-pin = Cruise Control/Red Button (red/yellow)
No connector = Horn/Green Button (green/blue)

[MonkeyMagic]

Hi hey thanks heaps for the reply I had seen that post but did not have the same color wiring... So I was still unsure.

It seems I must have different color coded cable? As all of the correspondence I have found does not have any mention of 'Green' color coming from hub... As for the rusty color? I am unsure

What I am confused about is that my Red wire coming from the hub reads +48V instead of the proposed +5V so I'm not sure if that's the problem? Using Blue/Green as GND I get a +5V-/+ signal but when connected to the throttle is close to 0.

Using green + black as the cruise control cable works. So without a white cable should I assume my Grey is throttle White?

My wires are Black, Grey, Brown, Purple, Green, Blue, Yellow, Red
Everything else I find is Red, Black, White, Grey, Blue, Yellow, Brown, Orange/Rusty Red

So still unsure.. I don't want to damage the controller if I haven't already, and cannot get support from GM in China..

Thanks again for the quick replies

[Leslie]

Yes be worried.

It looks strange to me

This red wire voltage is more for the battery indicator.

Are you sure the black wire is triggering the 5v to rail negative?

Maybe reverse, As a circuit cant go below ground unless its designed to.

Make sure you get your ground from the battery.

Use the white for the throttle maybe and any of the plus fives for the hall throttle input..

[Hardcore]

So the Red wire I think is the green wire, for the leds that goes to the throttle and

quto: Using Blue/Green as GND I get a +5V-/+ signal but when connected to the throttle is close to 0.
What if you then use the throttle, do you get 0-5v?

[MonkeyMagic]

Ok new readings with multi-meter GND connected to Battery GND.

Red = +53.9V
Black = +4.9V
Grey = +4.7V
Brown = +4.7V
Yellow = +4.7V
Purple = 0V
Blue = 0V
Green = 0V

And yes a bit worried, as it doesn't sound right at all

I tried using just the cruise control switch (connected with green + black), but does not work unless throttle is wired to different variations other than +53.9V (Red wire)

When I was using the color codes last night from the previous posts, I used red, black and grey and the throttle did not function but crossing the red and the black made the motor run full speed. I am thinking maybe to make a separate +5V supply for the throttle function as I possibly damaged mine?

Hmm not sure.. But thanks for all of your advice, maybe someone has same color wires as me

[Leslie]

Can you get the motor to still run.



If you connected the 53v up to the throttle.  The throttle could be damaged.

Is black the only wire that makes the wheel turn?

Do not connect the 53v wire.  Leave it last.

One of those 0v is throttle out speed control input.  Use a 10k variable resistor between the five volt and try each of the 0v until you have speed control.  

Use the resistor to avoid any damage and to the controller and mimic the hand controller, its only 0 to 5 volts there could be a good chance only your throttle has been damaged.  

[Leslie]

Seeing the black is .2v more than the others makes it different to the 4.7v.

To find the throttle input to the controller, my guess is its either one of the 0v.  there should be resistance between the 0v controller throttle input and ground, the throttle input even though it is 0v, on my controller it is far from ground,

  

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey thanks heaps Leslie I am now a step further!

I've worked out my Green wire is throttle input. It has a resistance of 3K to ground. My black wire also has a resistance, but only 1.6K so not sure there.

Connecting a 10K pot however, using black as Gnd, Green as throttle and any of the +4.7V wires drops the voltage down to ~+3V and only 1.5V or so reaching the throttle control so its only barely moving. My previous trial thinking Green was Cruise control, connecting to the Black wire (as it reads +4.9V) and green makes it turn pretty much half speed. With the Pot; the motor is still (not moving) at Center Pot and moving slowly at either end of the pot so it's only feeding +1.5V either end there.

Since it has been like this after about a week of use I am tipping something happened to the controller at this point. I do know that feeding a 0-5V signal into Green makes the throttle work so I'm thinking I'll build a small circuit to mimic this as I'm probably out of options here..

I'm glad I can still get the motor to turn, not sure whats going on with the voltage and how long it will last but I'm hoping a while...

Thanks again for the replies

Cheers

[Bikemad]

Here are two pictures of early and later type controllers if it helps:
(Click to enlarge)


My early controller


Newer controller

I think the cover may have to be removed to check the connections inside the hub, as something is definitely wrong with the readings.

Alan
 

[MonkeyMagic]

Yes I agree, thanks so much for the pics, now I know that its my wiring but worried I have damaged the +5V circuit.

I'm probably sounding like a tool but I've taken out all of the torx screws but cannot work out how to remove the black casing to view the controller. Is there any tips you can provide?

Thanks heaps again
Cheers

[MonkeyMagic]

Sorry also, in the above pics which one is for +48V/Batt+ ?

cheers

[Bikemad]

I've taken out all of the torx screws but cannot work out how to remove the black casing to view the controller. Is there any tips you can provide?

A smart tap on the end of the axle on the opposite side using a wooden or rubber mallet (or a block of wood and a hammer) should loosen the joint. It should then come off relatively easily. A squirt of oil on the shaft/bearing and possibly some heat from a hair dryer to expand the cover slightly may help if it's tight.
If you put a piece of tape next to one of the holes on both the hub and the cover you can make sure it goes back in exactly the same place.

Sorry also, in the above pics which one is for +48V/Batt+ ?

I think that the anti theft wheel locking connection (labelled lock on the circuit board) should be battery voltage, but I'm not so sure it's fed from the harness.
I have a hunch that it is simply joined to the thick Red battery lead inside the hub.

I also suspect that the battery supply for the battery gauge at the outer end of the harness is simply connected to the thick red battery cable inside the rectangular rubber bit where the control wires and battery wires meet.

Hopefully when the cover's off you'll be able to pinpoint the reason for these strange readings.

Good luck with the cover removal, and try and post some pictures of what you find in there.

but worried I have damaged the +5V circuit.

I would also check the +5v feed on the hall sensors as well, but I suspect it will be the same as the throttle/pedelec +5V.

The thin Black ground cable and thick Black battery -ve should give identical readings as they are connected to the same strip on the circuit board.

I would also suggest checking your meter on some other batteries just to confirm it's working correctly.
(1.5V pen cell or 9V smoke alarm battery etc. or a combination of both)

Do you recall what the actual battery voltage was during your tests?
(48.3V or 53.5V)


Alan
 

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey thanks to all of your help I have managed to get the casing open, mine is a cast 16" which seemed a bit harder than normal but I managed to get enough spacing between the alloy rim and hub casing using a wooden mallet on the reverse side to slot in small cable ties into the screw holes and basically pull it free.

With the casing open all circuit references are correct! I'm puzzled to find out where there must be a short somewhere as continuity between the wires to the controller also don't match. I get 53.7V from the red wire on the cable, and 4.9V on my red wire on the controller board.

Using a continuity check I get reference from the blue wire connected to 5V than the red wire. I am tipping it has something to do with the inter-connector where the original 8-pin and DC power sockets come from outside the hub.

Either way I'll eliminate this by wiring a new cable if I don't find the connection difference in the meantime.
Thanks very much again for all of your help