Can't dial in my new 48V regen system

[Electrobent]

I finally got my 48v battery packs built and put everything together: a 48V regen controller and a 48V 1000W wheel--both from Golden Motor in China--replacements for the 36V system that I road for three years and then fried.

The GM instructions were wrong for phase detection: you jump between the 12 possible options by goosing the throttle--Not flipping the power switch. They sent me the correct instructions but I still can't find a phase that has any torque with the wheel on the ground. It spins fast in the air but when I put it on the ground it wants to start out backwards. If I can peddle up to about 15 miles per hour and start the motor it will maintain that speed but my older 36V 500W motor went twice as fast.

The first thing I don't understand is why there are 12 possible phases with three poles.

Could they have swapped a couple wires? Like the ones to the Hall Effect Sensors?

Can I hurt anything by remapping the Hall effect wires?

GM parroted the same instructions to me repeatedly and once I told them that did not work they started ignoring me.

Has anyone worked out a diagnosis tree?

Any ideas?

Thanks!

[Bikemad]

Has anyone worked out a diagnosis tree?

Here are some posts which may help:

Troubleshooting chart.

More troubleshooting

Alan
 

[muzza.au]

If the controller and motor are both from GM I cant see how the wiring would be wrong, but on the off chance that they are then you may have to, as you say, remap the wiring. I had to do something similar when I bought a new controller (not GM, Infineon) for a different motor (not GM, GL-1). I've been told that even though all the wire colors were the same on the motor and controller that they did not necessarily match up because there is no international standard for what colors mean what. I found the following from Endless-sphere helpfull: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484 Basically you have to try every combination of the wiring until the motor runs smoothly in the right direction. You shouldnt damage the motor or controller if you have no load and only turn the throttle a little, in other words do not give it full throttle. If you have the wrong combination the rotation will be very rough or stagger or the wheel wont rotate at all. There should be four combinations that work, two for forward and two for reverse.

Attached is a spreadsheet that can help determine the wiring combinations needed.

Muzza

[Electrobent]

It looks like the spin the wheel to test the hall effect sensors is the easiest thing to do first

I am assuming that the red and black wires need to be connected to power the sensors but am I to unhook the red, blue and yellow wires or can I just poke my meter leads into the back of the connected molex connector?

[Bikemad]

I am assuming that the red and black wires need to be connected to power the sensors but am I to unhook the red, blue and yellow wires or can I just poke my meter leads into the back of the connected molex connector?

Yes, the sensors will need to be powered in order to get an output from them.

It will probably be easier using the supply from the controller and testing the outputs at the back of the connector so long as you can make a good contact and take care not short anything out.

Black meter lead to black and the Red meter lead to each of the green, blue and yellow wires in turn and check for 0-5V pulses as you slowly rotate the wheel by hand.

Good luck with your testing, and please let us know the results.

Alan
 

[muzza.au]

Is this the controller that you are using?

If so then you can try the following: Motor phases auto-detection and self calibration (Instructions) http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/Motor%20Phase%20Detection%20Procedures.pdf

Muzza.

[Electrobent]

That's it and those are the incorrect instructions that would have you flip the switch instead of goosing the throttle.

Ok--I seem to get pulses on all three hall effect wires as I rotate the wheel.

How does one "Check FETs"?  

The resistance from each of my colored phase wires to ground with no power to the controller is infinite so I don't think I am getting any helpful information there.

And how does one get Golden Motor to pay you  any attention?  I saw one guy who had a tantrum here and who eventually got a new controller sent out to him.  

I also wish that they would learn that wheels are supposed to be round as well as true!

[Electrobent]

Ok--I seem to get pulses on all three hall effect wires as I rotate the wheel.

How does one "Check FETs"? 

The resistance from each of my colored phase wires to ground with no power to the controller is infinite so I don't think I am getting any helpful information there.

[Bikemad]

Ok--I seem to get pulses on all three hall effect wires as I rotate the wheel.

How does one "Check FETs"?  

I don't know if this will be of any help:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_you_check_whether_mosfet_is_working_or_not
and
What is a mosfet?
and
Transistor / MOSFET tutorial on YouTube.

The resistance from each of my colored phase wires to ground with no power to the controller is infinite so I don't think I am getting any helpful information there.

At least you now know the windings are not shorted to ground  

You can disconnect the phase wires from the motor and check the resistance across two of the three phase wires ie blue and yellow and then compare the reading with those measured across blue and green and  yellow and green.

You should have similar readings for each of the pairs measured,  if one reading is significantly higher or lower than to the other two, you will probably have a break (if resistance is higher) or short (if resistance is lower) in one of the windings.

If the motor checks out ok, it could be the controller. (Is your old controller usable or did your it get cooked at the same time as the motor?)

If you have some means of checking the current being drawn from the battery while under load, a reading might be useful.

Does the motor feel lumpy or is it smooth (but sluggish) under load?

I was just going to say I'll keep my fingers crossed, but then realised I wouldn't be able to type!
Good luck anyway.

Alan
 

[Electrobent]

After a six month hiatus due to Gout, I got back to my project.  Someone on Endlesssphere suggested swapping the both the green and yellow power and hall effect sensor wires (green to yellow and yellow to green).  I this and was able to ride the bike under only its power for half a mile or so before it got dark.  It was hard to get started and noisy and chunky (I could feel the motor jump from magnet to magnet) when starting the first time but then started alright from a stop.  If I shut off the power and coast it makes the chunky sound for a while before becoming quiet and then I have to start all over again to get it to spin forward smoothly.  It is loud: a high pitched whining sound at top speed which is probably a little over 20 mph (I have a 20" wheel and weigh 250 lbs).  It winds up slowly from a stop: it feels like it has less torque than I had with my 36 volt system.  It also seems slower and like it can't find itself at first.  The good news was that the batteries (NiMH) were at 51 volts after my 10-15 minute ride and having been charged a week ago. 

Maybe the chunky sound is the regen braking? 

Can I just disable that to simplify things?

Anybody have any other ideas?

Or is the 48V brushless gearless hub a different winding than the 36V one?  I read some that there is a torque winding and a speed winding - - - but then the 48V seems wimpier than the 36V on both fronts?

Maybe mine got made on a Friday?

[Leslie]

Dont ever shut off any controller whist in motion, NEVER! While in regen it stresses the fets on your controller to the max.

My motor makes a camels grumble on take offs, makes lose stuff rattle and is quieter without a back rack to amplify the vibrations.  This is perfectly ok as it is the way to make the motor and controller cheaply and has no adverse effect on any of the parts.



The blue wires are to disable REGEN but you can not do it while in motion.  Im not sure really just what Ive read as I wanted to do this with my bike.

I found regen gives you the best damed brake power around and I wouldnt disable it.  I just add a trailer and pull the shopping home with a huge weight on the motor and have some fantastic brakes..

[Electrobent]

thanks!

I'll play around with more tonight.

[Electrobent]

Shorted out the blue wires to disable the regen braking.

If I turn on the power and push the bike before goosing the throttle it seems to start ok.  Once it winds up it gets going a little faster than my old 36 V system but the acceleration is much less.

I guess its working but I am disappointed and preferred my 36V 500W set-up

I wonder if I would be happier with their new idiot-proof controller?

[Bikemad]

It may be working, but it's obviously not working correctly.

It may be a hall sensor fault, but it will need further investigation to locate the problem.

Alan
 

[Leslie]

It may be working, but it's obviously not working correctly.

It may be a hall sensor fault, but it will need further investigation to locate the problem.

Alan
 

Yea you should be going a lot better than that.  Usually the phase is set out of the box.  what is your range?  Have you checked all your wiring?  How fast does it go?