Author Topic: Mini hub motor?  (Read 16280 times)

Offline weiser

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Mini hub motor?
« on: August 01, 2007, 12:22:13 AM »
So, has anyone here used one of the mini hub motors yet?




I'd like to know how they work out, specificly the brushless/geared version. What speeds, hillclimb ability, noise and other information of this nature.  The webpage seems a little short on details regarding these or maybe I just missed it?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 01:08:08 AM by weiser »
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Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 01:37:33 AM »
I think these are the original hub motors that caused Golden and customers so much grief. They just are not powerful enough to justify the expense. Special purpose applications, maybe.

Offline weiser

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 02:34:30 AM »
Hrm, I'd wanted to take a 36v model and set it up on 48v.
They look a lot like the hub motor on the Schwinn AL1020.






I've had a Kingsmotorbikes kit.  I understand these were older generation Golden Motor components, essentially similar to an HBS-36 except these had quality control issues, wich is why he was able to sell them for so cheap.  It took a good bit of work to get it running at all, and the performance was underwhelming to say the least, it barely gave any help at all.  Choked up the slightest incline and topped off around 25Km/h on the flats.  So I had to modify the controller, the modified version let it go to ~30km/h on it's own with a good pedal having it pretty much completely peter out by 35-40 km/h (by 35 you could twist the throttle and not really feel much difference at all), and it helped a lot better uphill (40A at 25km/h - ~1.44Kw power in).  Man, did that thing ever rip!

Didn't need to use the pedals except going uphill.  But thing is all I really wanted was a boost too help keep my summer times through winter, didn't want a motorcycle.  In summer I have no issues riding a bike for utility purposes 60kms or so, up or down hills.  But winter will slow me down about 1/3rd, and on a bad day it can double that.

The bike was heavy to start with, a cheap steel mtb. with the heavy hubmotor, studded tires, steel rim, steel rack, several meters of copper cable, lead batteries, etc.  It ended up feeling more like a sort of sh!tty moped rather then a bicycle, at about 42kgs.  It was also a lot more powerful then it needed to be, didn't need the pedals at all except up 20% grades.  Overall I would have prefered something much lighter and less powerfull, and on a lighter bike.  I think a total weight under 25Kgs would be very nice, and this is why I'm wondering about the small geared hub motor.

Anyways, a video of bike de merde can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV9Y6hVUBCI
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 02:24:46 AM by weiser »
Moral: YOU MAY BE DISAPPOINTED IF THE SYSTEM FAILS TO ACCEPT YOUR RATIONAL FOR NOT OBEYING THE LAW.  :(

Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 03:03:32 AM »
I have no idea about the gearing. I've only seen one geared motor in operation and it was set up with a 92 volt controller. The gearing appears to be a planetary reduction gear but I did not actually see the gear. Its just that the wheel and rotor turned in opposite directions. Top freewheel speed was guesstimated at over 80 MPH using two 48 volt 10AH LiFePo4 packs in series. Sounded like a jet turbine on the bench.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 06:08:00 AM by myelectricbike »

Offline OneEye

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 06:05:28 AM »
Hey, Weiser, are you an immigrant from the Endless Sphere forums?

I thought I remembered hearing about the bike de #@#$# from over there.

Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 06:16:34 AM »
Endless Sphere forums... I wonder if that would be a good place to sell Goldens???  :D

Offline weiser

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2007, 04:20:51 AM »
Endless sphere.  At some point I posted a video that showed and explained how to hop a bike over stuff, say like a pothole.  Of course it's a really basic technique, but I posted it because a few people on that forum seemed so clueless about bicycles that they didn't seem to know about it.  Well they censored that post by moving it out of ebikes technical and into general discussion category, in with stuff about global warming, how evil bush is and so on, etc.  As if they didn't realize it had anything to do with ebikes.  How someone can be so clueless is beyond me, this was the tipping point for giving up on that corrupt place.

One of the mods there actually thinks of no human input motor driven tandem wheeled devices that go beyond limited speed motorcycle limits as being bicycles.  Gimmie a break!  There can't be many people on earth who are that badly reality challenged, and the question then is why did they ever give this nutcase moderator privilidges in the first place?  That place is rotton to the core.  Except for the Emperor, that guy's badassitude is only exceeded by his awsomeness.

Discussion of electric motorcycles is actually encouraged in the ebike section of the forum, despite having an electric motorcycle section on that forum.   And then what's the point in even having one?   They may as well merge it's content into electric motorcycles and nuke the ebike section all together.

I'm not interested in motorcycles,  I'm interested in making a better bike by adding a motor, and since there's no place to discuss ebikes on that forum, staying there for this purpose is mostly pointless.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 04:36:32 AM by weiser »
Moral: YOU MAY BE DISAPPOINTED IF THE SYSTEM FAILS TO ACCEPT YOUR RATIONAL FOR NOT OBEYING THE LAW.  :(

Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 06:19:05 AM »
I no longer have to worry about it. It decided I was a bot. Guess I was tired. It was right before my bedtime. I never made it past the question about 2- 12 volt batteries being something or another. Dang! I was sure the answer was 12.

Offline weiser

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2007, 06:43:55 PM »
Ah, well back on topic of the mini hubmotor or something like it.  Seems I've found a used P2-A for cheap, with 36/48v controller.  Mostly as seen here:

http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/P2-A.htm


For all I know it could be the Golden Mini motor, would have to see it's insides to confirm.

As is I can ride ~65kms at an average speed of ~30km/h, works out to ~19mph over ~40miles, and of course faster given shorter distances, slower going farther.  Given the 32km/h cap this means that for day to day use the assist motor will be very seldom useful untill winter comes, mostly up steeper inclines and in stop & go, but I'll see how it works out once it getsin it's element.

With it's much lighter weight and hopefully wider wheels, I hope it will float reasonably well compared to the old bike, that sank through snow making it pretty hard to hump along.
Moral: YOU MAY BE DISAPPOINTED IF THE SYSTEM FAILS TO ACCEPT YOUR RATIONAL FOR NOT OBEYING THE LAW.  :(

Offline weiser

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2007, 02:21:37 AM »
For my second ebike build I wanted to make the ultimate utility bike.

Has to be: An excellent ride, fast & light & nimble, reasonable load capacity, able to be left downtown, work in all weather, reliable & low maintenance, etc.


I've learned a lot from my first build.  It was an absurdly massive bike that weighed in just over 40Kgs.  In some parts of the world that much weight would have bumped it as a moped.  But on top of that the motor added resistance even when unused, sorta like what you'd get from a 1/2 inflated tire.  So once you'd reach the top speed for an ebike at ~32km/h, then dropping the hammer hard yeilded eventual acceleration.  It was also over powered, I guesstimate it gave somewhere between 800w - 1.3Kw peak power out at 20 - 25km/h, this disconnects you from the bike, makes you feel like an accessory on it.  But it mostly sucked as a bike because being grossly overweight made it ride around about as nicely as a dead pig, it felt like a motorcycle.  Still, it let me get my commutes done while keeping my summer times.  It had potential, but less would have been more.


I've experimented a bit and found that the bike's max weight can be up to somewhere over 20kgs.  Now I know, that's still a hell of a massive clunker...  But consider that at this weight it still feels like a bike, it still feels pretty nimble and can be made to jump **** (barely) But more importantly it's still got some fire in it and it's just waiting for you to light it back up in a ball of blissful oneness.  At this weight it's definitely more timid regarding cutting through traffic like a ginsu knife of hope though, so I'd expect it to be slower downtown.  But well this is meant to be a utility bike...


Given the means I dispose of, reaching this weight is likely to mean carrying batteries on my person.  Also this time around I've chosen to use the P2-A hubmotor, as can be found on Brett White's site.  I chose a hubmotor again out of other options because the buisness end is inside rather then exposed to the elements, and as such is more reliable & has greatly reduced maintenance requirements.  At ~3.5Kg it's just over half the weight of the massive motor in my previous build, it's also alot more subtle.  And while the previous one was a disgustingly massive & over powered pig, this one should make a nicely balanced hybrid that's actually usable as a bike - fancy that.  For same reason I expect to need a good bit less battery to get things done.  Plus this motor has a freewheel, so I expect these things put together will make quite the difference when I get past the motor's speed limit.  All in all, should be a major win.  On the flip side, being geared means it'll make sound.



My first attempt at this second build, well once nearly all setup the bike allready weighed an absurd 30kgs, and that was without a motor or front brake yet.  Fail.  Then a pot hole from hell ate it up so bad that it destroyed the frame and front wheel.  So the bike failed at failing, epic!


So I found something else that would do the trick, but it's a POS.  Weighs 19Kg as seen, I've been riding it around like that for the past few weeks or so, so the fit's pretty much dialed in by now.  I've not built it up since I was hopeing to stumble upon something better, say like an old Bridgestone.  That woulda been a nice improvement and saved a nice chunk of weight at it, but that hasn't happenned & winter's coming.  So POS red bike is probably gonna be it.




BTW, spoke card is a Mickey mouse King of hearts, found while riding.



To be continued...
Moral: YOU MAY BE DISAPPOINTED IF THE SYSTEM FAILS TO ACCEPT YOUR RATIONAL FOR NOT OBEYING THE LAW.  :(

Offline ambrose

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Re: Mini hub motor?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2007, 02:30:15 PM »
I wanted 26'' dia wheel to fix in my bike I would like buy one please send me the detail


So, has anyone here used one of the mini hub motors yet?




I'd like to know how they work out, specificly the brushless/geared version. What speeds, hillclimb ability, noise and other information of this nature.  The webpage seems a little short on details regarding these or maybe I just missed it?