New member with a few questions

[Bargo]

Good morning everyone,

I have just got my hands on few electric bikes that has the golden motor of some version. I’m trying to find more information from them, on the plugs to the motor have three cables one for the battery 2 positive and 2 negative female pins and one 10 male pins and 5 male pins.

I assume the 10 male pins needs some kind of converter cable to go to brakes lights throttle

And the 5 pin goes to LCD

I will come with more questions but I could not find away to tell which version are these.

All my best,


P.s Hello Alan, I could not figure out how can I confirm my membership further, thanks a lot for all the posts.

[Bikemad]

Hi Bargo andto the forum.

If the motor diameter is approximately 310mm you most likely have Magic Pies:





As you have the 10 Pin connector they could be any of the following three options;

• late version MPIII
• MP4
• MP5

The wiring of the MPIII, MP4 and MP5 motors is very similar except the MP5 had the additional +5V supply on the controller's 5 pin connector.

The 10 pin connector connects to the control harness similar to the one shown below:


The 5 pin connector is used to connect to the USB programming lead, the LCD Smart display or the Bluetooth dongle on MP5.

Check out this post for more details regarding the cables on the controller.

Alan
 

[Bargo]

Thanks a lot Alan for the detailed response, this is much appreciated.

I will Check diameters, but also the 5v on the 5pin cables might be a very good way, I will check if I have any resistance on that pin.

All my best,

Waheed

[Bargo]

Hello and good evening,

I measured diameter but it’s far off at ~19cm .

I measured resistance on the 4th pin on the 5 pins cable and I have around 6kohm resistance.

I’m also attaching a photo for the fat wheel.

I would need to buy a new controller harness even though I have a couple of mounted buttons already but I think I need to remake them.

All my best,

Waheed

[Bikemad]

The motor shown in your photo is a Smart Pie, but the wiring should be the same as the MPIII, MP4 or MP5 dependent upon which version of the Smart Pie it is.



Your Fat Wheel version will probably have a longer axle and wider dimensions to the ones shown below:



You need to measure the voltage on pin 4 relative to ground (B-) with a battery connected.
A 12V battery should be sufficient to produce the +5V supply on Pin 4 if it is a later controller.

Unfortunately, it can difficult to tell the difference between the early Smart Pies with the Square wave controller and the Smart Pie 4/5 with the vector controller until you hear them under load. The noise emitted from an early Smart Pie increased with the load, whereas the minimal sound emitted by the later motors with the vector controllers only varied with wheel rpm. It did not noticeably change when under load or with the throttle released at the same wheel rpm.

Alan
 

[Bargo]

Thank you for the very interesting and detailed information Alan.

I have a feeling I will see 5volts on that pin, I have luckily also found the harness controller cable, I attached a photo,  now my question would be if I actually manually give these signals to the control harness pins, so I assume the throttle signal can be either on or off, or an pwm signal type, so if I give this signal some voltage it should indicate throttle on to some extent? I also have a question what would the cruise signal indicate.

I can see two types of voltages battery or 5v coming from controller. Trying to get the basics of it .

All my best,

Waheef

[Bargo]

I just made some measurements for voltages at 12v power, attached pictures with wire color function:

Red battery + 12v
Black battery -
Yellow Receive measuring 4.9v
Green 5v+ 4.9v
Blue Transmit measuring 0v


It would be great if we can allow higher resolution images.  always have to try to down size the photos

All my best,

[Bikemad]

So I assume the throttle signal can be either on or off, or an pwm signal type, so if I give this signal some voltage it should indicate throttle on to some extent? I also have a question what would the cruise signal indicate.

The throttle signal wire requires a voltage of ~0.8V to 4.25V to control the motor speed. The motor should start to turn with a throttle signal voltage of ~1.25V and maximum motor rpm is reached at ~3.25V. Below 1.25V it will not run at all, and above 3.25V it will simply remain on full throttle.

The cruise signal wire is simply switched to ground (B-) when the cruise button is pressed to activate (or deactivate) the cruise function. Applying either of the brakes (or twisting the throttle) will also deactivate the cruise control.

It would be great if we can allow higher resolution images.  always have to try to down size the photos

Your attached picture of the control harness is a whopping 4032 pixels wide and 3024 pixels high!
Full HD is only 1920 x 1080 and 4K is 3840 x 2160, I really don't see a need for excessively high resolution images (or their associated large file sizes) as attachments on this forum. 

Alan
 

[Bargo]

Thanks a lot again Alan. That answers my questions.

The photo is just the default size todays phones are capable of doing I wish it was not the case to this but it’s more convenient to be able to just upload it without the need to modify it.

I would need to make it run without a battery first then I need to wire it out, the pictures you shared already help a lot.

All my best,

Waheed

[Bargo]

Hello Again,

I hope you are doing well.

I finally was going to complete my collective setup, but at the last mile I did something wrong, I connected a 36v led to my 48 + - which comes out from the throttle 5 pin cable, after a couple of second the +- battery was shorted due to led short. I disconnected everything and now I can read battery normal, I get 5v everywhere where it should be, but I don't see anything on the throttle signal except -0.02v giving that the 5v makes 5v short to ground, I think something is wrong with the board now, but I wanted to confirm if anyone have any better idea

All my best,

Waheed

[Bargo]

before I start dismounting the wheel and checking the board status, I think its better to connect myself to the com port and use the vector controller application to check if there is any good signs of life, if the PAS works I will just configure it with PAS then, throttle signal is mostly burned at some component.

[Bikemad]

Hi Waheed, it sounds like your not having much luck at the moment.   

There's a strong possibility that you may have melted some wires inside either the main control harness or the throttle cable wiring.

If the +5V feed on the controller harness was not present with everything plugged in, but it returned with just the throttle disconnected, the short will hopefully be confined to the throttle cable itself.

However, if the +5V feed is not present with with just the throttle disconnected, but it returns when the main harness is unplugged, there will be a short somewhere inside the main harness, but there may also be a short in the throttle cable as well. 

You should be able to use a multimeter to check for continuity (or very low resistance) between all of the pin combinations (especially the +5V pins and Ground pins) on both the main harness and the throttle cable while they are both completely unplugged.

If either or both cables are shorted, it/they will need to be repaired or replaced.



I suspect the high current produced during the initial short caused by the LED failure will have overheated the Battery +, Lighting feed and the Battery - (Ground) wires causing the wire core to melt through the insulation on one of these wires and also melting through the insulation of one of the adjacent wires (probably the Battery - has melted into the +5V) which has caused your problem.

Hopefully it will just be the throttle cable that is damaged. Check out this post and this post for further information on checking the throttle.



Alan
 

[Bargo]

Thanks a lot Alan, I appreciate your kind words. I think I have burned the throttle twist itself which is not my concern (reads 75 Ohm between 5v and ground), I was concerned about the throttle controller itself (the one inside the wheel)

I re did the wirings check, and all wires seems to be decent, no shorts. I mounted the cables again, disconnected dead throttle switch, and to my surprise I was measuring voltage from the control harness 5 pin (throttle signal reads  0v) the 5v reads 4.8v but something surprised me happened, while measuring the 4.8v I switched to the resistance mode in the meter, and when measured the 5v the wheel gets spinning as I'm throttling. Not sure what is going on, but something I cant explain, except that in resistance meter, I get some conduction going.

if I connect the 5v with the throttle signal pin, I just hear a click but no movement. Only when I probe that 5v pin with the positive resistance to ground I get the spin

resistance is measuring 15-20k OHM On most signal pins, sounds like correct, 5v to throttle signal measures (+19K Ohm)

The cruise signal reads at 3v signal.