VEC300 with 5kW motor

[Corchard]

Hello Forum,
     I just recently vector 300 w 5km Air cooled and am trying to desk test it before I install it in my sailboat.   I'm trying to determine how (if) I can use a ET-134 throttle controller instead of the rather large heavy one that Golden motors has for sailboats.

the et-134 has 48V input which I can get from batteries (switched and fused) and produces the  0-5V necessary Green-white throttle wire.  So far I haven't been able to get the motor to move.   What else is the controller expecting and on what wire? What signals are required to indicate reverse?   

In terms of shutting down the controller, is the e-lock (Orange wire) just a switch (closed/open circuit)? or is it expecting a signal of some sort?

Unfortunately the vector controllers don't have a proper schematic for the control wires that I have found so that I can plan my wiring harness.

Any help that anyone can provide would be useful.

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

That throttle should work fine with an output voltage is 0~5V.

The Orange e-lock wire simply requires battery voltage to be applied via a switch to activate the controller, opening the circuit disables the controller.

Reverse is achieved by switching the Reverse wire to ground.

The diagrams below will hopefully help you identify the connections required in order to plan your wiring harness:





Alan
 

[Corchard]

Thank you I've been studying those diagrams a lot to try and diagnose the issue.

The wires/connectors  that I will be using are:

• the Elock (orange)
• the Throttle (black/white), (green/white) and (red/white)
• Do I also need to use the forward/reverse (brown) and (black)?

and now for steps:

• To get the controller to accept signals for the time being I need to connect the elock to the battery and short it to bench test the unit until the switch comes in
• Then connect the ground (black/white) and 0-5V signal (green/white).  Do I need to do anything with the +5 V red/white or is that connected to the forward signal?  Can it be +48V?
• Now when I turn the throttle control the motor should spin
• For Reverse, am I reversing the Brown and black or the red/white and black/white? Again does it matter that the reverse voltage is 48V

Thank you again for your help.

[Bikemad]

Unfortunately I have no experience with the Curtis ET-135 throttle or Curtis controllers, so it is difficult for me to understand exactly how the (Forward) and (Reverse) connections on the throttle are supposed to be implemented.
Therefore, I would simply use a separate switch connected to the Brown and Black (Reverse) wires on the controller to select the reverse function (closing the switch contacts should engage Reverse).
Please Note: 48V must not be used to operate the Reverse function.

For the throttle connections you probably need to connect the Black/White wire to Pin 1 (Pot Lo) and the Green/White wire to Pin 8 (0-5V output).
Please Note: the +5V Red/White wire from the VEC300 controller must not be connected to the ET-135 throttle!

Hopefully this wiring diagram below is the same as the ET-135 throttle as the only difference between the two throttles appears to be a return spring fitted to the ET-126:



I suggest that you check the output voltage measured between the (PotLo) and the (0-5V output) connectors using a voltmeter to confirm it is working correctly (and stays within the expected 0-5V range).
This voltage should change progressively from 0V to 5V when the throttle is moved slowly from the OFF position to the FULL THROTTLE position.

If the maximum output voltage exceeds 4.8V then the motor may cut out at maximum throttle position due to the VEC300 controller's throttle protection function.
However, it should be possible to add a 10kOhm variable resistor (or physically limit the full movement of the throttle) to reduce the maximum output voltage to an acceptable value if necessary.

I suggest that you also make a note of the maximum and minimum voltage readings, as they will be very useful if you want to fine tune the throttle range voltages in the controller to closely match the available throttle movement. 

Alan
 

[Corchard]

Hello Alan and Thank you again.   We are getting there.

I've already done a bunch of the measurements with a voltmeter and know what the ET-134 outputs.  The 126 and the 134 for have the same pinout but what I need to determine is what signals need to be sent and/or switches closed to get on the vector 300 controller operate correctly.

From the ET 134:
Pin 1 signal ground  (Reads continuous 0.7V against common ground regardless of throttle position)
Pin 2 requires +48v (13V to 52 V -  tested down to 10V)
Pin 3 produces +52V against common (or signal) ground when dial is spun in reverse direction, 0V in forward direction
Pin 4 produces +52V against common (or signal) ground when dial is spun in forward direction, 0V in reverse direction
Pin 7 is common ground - of 48V
Pin 8 produces variable + 0-5V against common ground in either forwards or reverse depending on the amount of dial rotation (Max 5.3V stated but I haven't seen that high of a value yet, My unit maxes out at 5.02V for a second then stabilizes at 5.0V)

So now I know how to wire everything except for somehow I need to close the switch between Brown and Black for reverse.

Regards,
Charles

[Corchard]

I need help again.   I've given up on the curtis ET-134 and will be using a 10KOhm Potentiometer and some switches and I have a couple (More) questions.

Is there a configuration of the throttle wires (black/white), (green/white) and (red/white) that can be managed by an ON (Green light)-OFF-ON (Red Light) lighted switch such that the OFF position does not send signal regardless of the potentiometer resistance?
Pinout:
   1 Green light on
   2 Common (+ve)
   3 Red light on
   4 Negative

For the above configuration, how can the can the Red light on position enable the reverse (brown and black) switch to throw the motor in reverse?

For reference my Parts list is
- elock: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2155/SPDT_Remote_Control_Contura_Switch_-_ON-ON
- potentiometer/Throttle: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-passive-product/3-1625931-1/2363861?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIEYAMBWA7GNBaAcgEQAIQBdAXyA
-rocker switch: https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/cw-industries/GRB260D501BBRG1/2349704?s=N4IgTCBcDaIMIHUCMYAsBaAcgERAXQF8g

[Bikemad]

Hi Charles,

Unless you have a 12V electrical system on your sailboat, using those switches is not going to be straightforward because the LEDs in the rocker switch and the one in the eLock switch will not survive with your 52V battery unless you add suitable resistors on the negative terminal to reduce the voltage across the LEDs.
Unfortunately, the manufacturer's datasheet doesn't list the current draw for the LEDs on the rocker switch, so it is difficult to say what size additional resistor will be required.
The 12V eLock switch would require an additional 1 Watt resistor of approx 3kOhms on the ground wire for the 12V LED to work correctly with your 52V battery (or 4x 3kOhms 1/4W resistors wired in series/parallel like the 30 Ohm resistors shown below).



The only way I can see to use that rocker switch to control the throttle and reverse function would require a couple of 48V relays (one to switch reverse and the other to switch the throttle signal), a diode and a couple of resistors (1.6kOhm and 8.4kOhm) used in series as a simple voltage divider to simulate the fully closed throttle signal voltage (~0.8V) from the 5V supply while the switch is in the centre position (both relays released).
The diode ensures that the throttle relay is energized in both the forward and reverse switched positions.



If your sailboat does have a 12V battery system you can simply use a couple of 12V Relays instead of the 48V relays shown, and you won't need to worry about having additional resistors for the LEDs in both Switches.

I suggest that you check if the potentiometer you listed has 3 pins as it only shows 2 pins in the datasheet, and you will definitely need all three pins to use it with the VEC-300 controller:





Alan
 

[Corchard]

Thank you Alan,

I'll give up on the LED for now and go back to just a simple arrangement of: switch for on/off for the controller, a separate switch for the reverse and the potentiometer for throttle control. 

Just confirming that the Elock is at 12 V and reverse and throttle are at 5V?

A simple 12V switch can control on/off by closing/shorting the elock wires/pins?
A simple 5V switch can control the reverse function by closing/shorting the reverse wire/pins?
The 10k Ohm potentiometer can be wired direct or needs the 1K Ohm and 2k Ohm resistors indicated in the diagram you provided?

[Bikemad]

The eLock wire on the VEC controller is typically supplied with full battery voltage to activate the controller - NOT 12V.
The voltage on the throttle +5V wire is typically around 4.5~5V but I'm not sure what voltage is on the reverse wire before it is switched to ground to select reverse.

As the eLock and reverse switches are only switching a very small amount of current, a simple non-illuminated 12V switch should work fine (even with a 48V battery).

The 1.5k Ohm and 2k Ohm resistors indicated in the diagram are required to ensure the throttle signal voltage stays within the expected range:



Without these resistors, the Throttle voltage range protection could be activated at both ends of the potentiometer's travel (i.e. below 0.7V or above 4.0V) causing the motor to cut out and the 12 beep/blink error code to be displayed.

If the resistors are not used, the Throttle voltage range protection enable value would have to be set to 2:Disable to prevent the 12 beep/blink error from being triggered. However, this could prove to be extremely dangerous if the ground wire going to the potentiometer suddenly failed and became disconnected while the controller was powered up, as the motor could continue to run regardless of the potentiometer position! 

Alan
 

[Corchard]

Hello Again Forum....

I'm still struggling with the setup and am trying yet another route.   I've purchase the Thumb Throttle for external controllers https://goldenmotor.bike/product/48v-thumb-throttle-for-external-controllers/ and just trying to confirm the wiring to the vec300.

The three sets of connectors:

throttle wire             Controller wire            notes         
Red                            Red                           Throttle +5v
Black                          Black                         Throttle Ground
White                        Green                        Throttle signal

Brown                        ??
Yellow                        ??

Green                        Battery +                  Optional battery monitor LED 48V
Black                         Ground                      Optional ground  for above

Are the brown and yellow intended to switch the controller power  (Elock orange , Battery + Red)?  Is it optional?

Is this a hall sensor device or potentiometer for the Throttle mode selection?

And I swear that I tried to determine the answers in this forum or from the online documentation but couldn't find what I needed.

[Bikemad]

Hi Charles,

The Brown and Yellow wires are connected to the switch in the throttle.
You can use these to operate the eLock function of the controller, or use a separate key switch etc. if you prefer.

Unfortunately, it looks like your controller is currently programmed for a boat style throttle, which is not very helpful for a motorcycle.

You will need the USB programming cable and the PI-800 programming software to change the Throttle mode selection setting from 0:Hyperbola to 1:Linear.
If that doesn't fix the problem, try changing the Speed throttle type setting from 0:Hall effect throttle to 1:Potentiometer throttle (or vice versa).

The correct combination of the above settings should make your throttle respond as expected.

Although the thumb throttle is a Hall Sensor device, it should also work with the controller's throttle mode selection set to Potentiometer as well.

Alan
 

[Corchard]

Hello All,

I'm still struggling with this.   I'm getting the 12 beeps (throttle error) even with the new purchased thumb throttle previously indicated.  Is there anything that can be corrected in the controller settings that is obvious? 



Also I'm also trying to slow the start up spin speed to as slow as possible and max rmp. Most sailboat motors max out at about 2200 rpm because anything beyond that the propeller just slips. 

[Bikemad]

Hi Charles,

Check if the 12 beep error code occurs at maximum or minimum throttle.
If it only occurs at maximum throttle, you will need to increase the Throttle maximum allowed voltage (V) until the error no longer occurs.
If it only occurs when the throttle is fully released, you may have to lower the Throttle lowest allowed voltage (V) until the error no longer occurs.

You may be able to restrict the maximum rpm by setting the Rated motor speed (rpm) to the required value and also setting the Forword Speed ratio (%) to 100%.

If you don't have a 3 speed switch connected, I would set the 3-Gears enable setting back to 0:Disable.

I would also expect the Number of pole pairs to be set to 4 (not 5) as the 5kW motor only has 8 magnets (4 pole pairs).

Alan