Author Topic: Magic Pie Edge, Smart Pie 5, total of 3 controllers eventually stopped working  (Read 114 times)

Offline Tiwi13

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Bought Smart Pie 5 front wheel kit with mechanical brake sensor (road bike with curved  handlebars) https://www.goldenmotor.bike/product/mechanical-brake-sensor-for-magic-pie-vector-or-smart-pie-vector-2-pieces-2/ as well as a 48V13.6Ah panasonic shark battery from goldenmotors in November. Not using pedal assist, only a thumb throttle.

After a few days, bluetooth wouldn't connect anymore (which was weird but didn't bother me much).
After a week or so, there was a strange behavior. When I connected the battery, I wouldn't get anything from the throttle (which showed full battery). Ebrakes weren't activated (wheel could spin unless I was using the e-brake, which I could test successfully by testing on rear wheel). After a few moments it would spin up a bit by itself and it would always spin, at least a little, unless e-brakes were activated. That got progressively worse, longer delay until it started throttling, throttling more by itself, to the point that using the throttle would actually go slower than letting it spin by itself. And then the next time I tried to use it didn't work at all anymore.

Golden Motor sent me a replacement controller and bluetooth. Everything fine again.
A week after installing it, it started having the same problem. same evolution until it stopped working.

Sent everything except battery back to Golden Motor. They tested it and it all worked fine. They sent it back

Everything worked out of the box. 2 days later, same problem started to reappear.

They replaced the Smart Pie 5 and throttle with a Magic Pie edge. Everything worked for about 2 weeks, then it started to happen again. back to the stage where nothing works at all, except bluetooth and the throttle showing battery level.
I also tested with another battery (48V20Ah) without any success.

Controller shows a single LED blink at power up and a single blink at power down.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/p86jZSysMAima2ir9

This album shows the progressive throttle behavior I was talking about : Nothing happening for a while after turning on, than throttle all by itself when I'm not breaking
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WLu8ZgBDzBwcgjbx7

I saw a post about water in the connectors for a similar behavior, but it's been dry in my basement for over 3 weeks now with no changes. The Magic Pie was also never ridden during snow or rain, only some snow on the ground.

EDIT: Link to videos repaired
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 11:48:21 AM by Bikemad »

Offline Bikemad

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Hi andto the forum.

I have just been watching your video of the Smart Pie (after sorting the incorrect email link) and it reminds me of a similar problem I experienced with a Magic Pie 4 each time the front LED light was turned on. Take a look at this post for more details.

Try temporarily unplugging both brake switches to see if it makes any difference. If it cures the problem, plug them back in one at a time to see which one is causing the problem.

Have you tried unplugging the throttle to see if the motor still continues to run on its own?

If the new Magic Pie Edge is behaving exactly the same as the old Smart Pie 5 shown in the video, the problem is most likely being caused by something else that hasn't been replaced, or perhaps an accessory item that is still attached somewhere on the electrical system.

Was the main wiring harness replaced, or is it still the same original control harness?

Do you have anything connected to the battery or the wiring harness that is not standard, like LED lights, Heated grips, DC/DC converter for USB charging socket etc.?

Check that the four unused wires for the pedal assist sensor/reverse switch (or the three pin PAS connector) are properly insulated and waterproof.

Although it's been dry in your basement for over 3 weeks, I would still  double check inside all of the connectors for signs of water ingress, as capillary action could allow water to find its way into a small gap, but the small gap might be too small to allow sufficient airflow to dry the water out again.

I only takes one tiny drop of water in the wrong place to cause this unusual behaviour, as I demonstrated in this post.

Or sometimes a larger amount of water inside the controller housing causes problems:



If you use a hosepipe on a warm motor, the sudden cooling effect causes a pressure drop within the hub which can suck water into the controller housing around the motor harness cable where it enters the controller.
Nowadays, these cables are sealed into the controller quite well, but a very slight gap around the cable (where the outer cable has come unbonded from the sealant) could allow water to enter the controller. :-\

If you haven't done so already, I would also try the motor with the bluetooth dongle unplugged to make sure that the dongle is not the cause.

Alan

 

Offline Tiwi13

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Right now it won't run at all. Throttle lights up bot nothing on activation.
There is nothing connected except the battery and the throttle. I've left everything unplugged for over a week.

The main harness was replaced.

The only thing not part of the original kit is the mechanical brake sensors I talked about earlier, which replace the normal brake handles.

The PAS wires are blocked by a blob of glue of some sort.

Didn't see any water in controller housing (wasn't hosed down or anything). Is there a better way to check inside the connectors to see if there is water?

Offline Tommycat

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Even though you replaced the throttle, I think I would still verify it's operation to be able to check it off the list. Keep in mind that even tho the LED lights light, they have nothing to do with the actual operation of the hall sensor in the throttle. (except of course showing you have battery power...) And that these throttles are not water/snow proof AT ALL.

Your looking for at least 4.3vdc positive power to ground, with the output from ~.8vdc to ~3.5vdc throttle closed to wide open. Use this diagram for testing points...



And this thread for testing procedures...

  Guide to Hall Sensor Throttle operation, testing, and modification.

If you have a 5vdc testing source it's easier to test off the bike... (bench test) other wise special jumpers are needed. (shown in the thread)

See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub E-Bike build  HERE.

Offline Bikemad

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The only thing not part of the original kit is the mechanical brake sensors I talked about earlier, which replace the normal brake handles.

Did you connect the switch between the blue and black wires as per the original switch, or does your modification involve the red +5V wire being connected? If the red and blue wire are touching each other, this could possibly lead to eventual failure of the +5V regulator in the controller.

If the +5V red wire was not used, did you properly insulate it to prevent it from touching either of the other two wires?



As Tommycat has already suggested, checking the voltage on the throttle +5V and signal wire voltages would be very helpful to try and locate the fault.
If the +5V supply is faulty, the motor will not run.
If the throttle signal voltage is too high with the throttle released, a safety feature of the controller will also prevent the motor from running.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to locate the original fault (motor running on its own) if the motor does not run at all now.

I think we can safely rule out the Hall sensors in the motor, if there was a problem with those, you would have seen five regular flashes of the controller's LED when it was powered on, instead of the single flash shown in your video when your power on and power off the controller.

The current non-running motor problem could be due to water ingress, wiring issues or a faulty throttle/controller, if you are able to measure the +5V and throttle signal voltages, it should help to locate the fault.

Alan
 

Offline Tiwi13

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The mechanical sensors use the exact same connector as the original brake levers, so I didn't have to do any modifications.