Author Topic: Replacement Spokes  (Read 384 times)

Offline Adamsavage79

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Replacement Spokes
« on: January 03, 2020, 10:44:41 PM »
Where would I find replacement spokes for the Black Pie 5 Vector ? I would prefer if they didn't come from Golden Motor, and at no offence to Gary. The problem is this kit is barely a year old and hasn't even gone through two winters, and under light use. Yet a large amount of the spokes are corroded, to the point that the nipples are fused with the spokes. This isn't a normal thing... So I question the quality of the spokes on the wheel. I had a ebike that I used in the Winter almost daily, in Ottawa that has much worse of a Winter vs Waterloo and I never had problems with the spokes.

I know the spokes are 14 gauge and are 110mm in length.. I just don't know anything about the quality of spokes.

EDIT:

Would these work ?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 11:05:35 PM by Adamsavage79 »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2020, 12:23:10 PM »
Would these work ?

Unfortunately, the heads on those spokes will be too small to seat correctly into the larger holes used on the Magic Pie hubs.
I recommend using the larger headed 13/14g Sapim butted spokes which were designed specifically for heavy loads usage including tandems and e-bikes:


Check out this post for further information regarding spokes on Magic Pie wheels.

Alan

 

Offline Tommycat

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2020, 02:46:30 PM »

As some prefer the "give" or flexibility that the smaller diameter spokes may provide resulting in less breakage. Or don't want to go to the hassle of replacing what they have. I've seen installations that use "spoke washers" that make up for the larger hub holes as well as keeping spoke elbow to hub fit tight.

Examples...

https://www.sapim.be/tools/washers

You could also custom forge and fit them... lol.






But I wouldn't recommend it.    ::)  ;)  :D
See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub E-Bike build  HERE.

Offline Adamsavage79

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 10:14:57 PM »


Unfortunately, the heads on those spokes will be too small to seat correctly into the larger holes used on the Magic Pie hubs.
I recommend using the larger headed 13/14g Sapim butted spokes which were designed specifically for heavy loads usage including tandems and e-bikes:


Check out this post for further information regarding spokes on Magic Pie wheels.

Alan


Are these the same thing ?

https://www.spokeservice.ca/shop/spokes/sapim-strong-spokes?attribute_color=Black&attribute_length=110mm

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2020, 11:28:49 PM »

Offline Adamsavage79

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2020, 11:32:35 PM »
Ok Good. I will look around some more. I don't think I'm going to with that American site. I've never bought spokes before, so I don't know if the price from the CDN site is typical.

Offline Adamsavage79

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 05:21:19 AM »
Do the Spoke Nipples matter, or do they also need to match the spoke as well.

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2020, 07:42:23 PM »
The nipples must obviously have the same diameter thread (and thread pitch) as the spoke or they will not thread onto the spoke properly.

Alan
 

Offline Adamsavage79

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 07:49:45 PM »
The nipples must obviously have the same diameter thread (and thread pitch) as the spoke or they will not thread onto the spoke properly.

Alan

I got off the phone with the store that I bought my spokes off of and he said the spokes that I ordered will work with any people because they are tapered. They start off at 14 gauge  and then they taper off to 13 gauge at the nipple end.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 08:51:21 PM by Adamsavage79 »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 08:31:48 PM »

I got off the phone with the store that I bought my spokes off of and he said the spokes that I ordered will work with any people because they are tapered. They start off at 14 gauge and then they take her off to 13 gauge at the nipple end.

The rolled thread where the nipple threads on is parallel not tapered, so the correct size nipple must be used.

Please note that 14 gauge spokes are smaller in diameter than 13 gauge spokes:
Quote from: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_g.html#gauge
There are several different national systems of gauge sizes, and this has been a great cause of confusion. A particular problem is that French gauge numbers are smaller for thinner wires, while the U.S./British gauge numbers are larger for thinner wires. The crossover point is right in the popular range of sizes used for bicycle spokes:
U.S./British 14 gauge is the same as French 13 gauge
U.S./British 13 gauge is the same as French 15 gauge
Newer I.S.O. practice is to ignore gauge numbers, and refer to spokes by their diameter in millimeters, usually rounded to the nearest tenth of a millimeter.:
U.S./British 13 gauge is 2.3 mm
U.S./British 14 gauge is 2.0 mm
U.S./British 15 gauge is 1.8 mm
U.S./British 16 gauge is 1.6 mm
U.S./British 17 gauge is 1.4 mm
The gauge system is basically obsolete as explained in this excerpt from "Machinery's Handbook" 21st edition, 1980 p463:
WIRE AND SHEET METAL GAGES
The thickness of sheet metals and the diameters of wires conform to various gaging systems. These gage sizes are indicated by numbers and the following tables give the decimal equivalents of the different gage numbers.Much confusion has resulted from the use of gage numbers and in ordering materials it is preferable to give the exact dimensions in decimal fractions of an inch... [millimeters preferred nowadays-SB ]

...the decimal method of indicating wire diameters ...has the advantage of being self-explanatory, whereas arbitrary gage numbers are not. The decimal system of indicating gage sizes is now being used quite generally, and gage numbers are gradually being discarded. Unfortunately there is is considerable variation in the use for different gages. For example a gage commonly used for copper, brass and other non-ferrous metals may at times be used for steel, and vice versa...

The wire gage system used by practically all the steel producers in the United States is known by the name Steel Wire Gage or to distinguish if from the Standard Wire Gage (S.W.G.) used in Great Britain it is called he United States Steel Wire Gage. It is the same as the Washburn and Moen, American Steel and Wire Company, and Roebling Wire Gages. The name has the official sanction of the Bureau of Standards at Washington, but is not legally effective. The only gage which has been recognized in Acts of Congress is the Birmingham Gage...the Birmingham Gage is, however, nearly obsolete both in the United States and in Great Britain, where it originated...

In Great Britain one wire gage has been legalized. This is called the Standard Wire Gage (S.W.G.), formerly called Imperial Wire Gage.

The U.S. system, S.W.G. and Birmingham gages are all the same for 15 gage, 0.72" (1.8288 mm.)
Below is a small excerpt from the table referred to:

Gage
Number   U.S. Steel Wire Gage      British S.W.G.          Birmingham Gage
12          .1055"      2.6797 mm   .1040"   2.6416 mm   .1090" 2.7686 mm
13          .0915"      2.3241 mm   .0920"   2.3368 mm   .0950" 2.413 mm
14          .0800"        2.032 mm   .0800"   2.0320 mm   .0830" 2.10 mm
15          .072"        1.8288 mm   .072"     1.8288 mm   .072" 1.8288 mm
16          .0625"       1.5875 mm   .0640"   1.6256 mm   .0650" 1.651 mm
17          .0540"       1.3716 mm   .0560"   1.4224 mm   .0580" 1.4732 mm


Therefore those butted spokes should be 14 gauge at the nipple end and 13 gauge at the larger elbow/head end:



If your existing nipples are meant for 13 gauge spokes with a 2.3mm (~0.090") O/D thread;



You may find that the internal thread will be to too large (and much too loose) for a 2mm (~0.078") O/D 14 gauge spoke thread.

Alan
 

Offline Adamsavage79

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 08:54:30 PM »

Therefore those butted spokes should be 14 gauge at the nipple end and 13 gauge at the larger elbow/head end:

It's possible I misheard or recalled wrong. I know he said one end is 14 Gauge and the other is 13. I don't recall which end that was. Based on the nipple selection on the webpage, I would say the elbow end is 13 and the nipple end is 14 gauge. The bike shop where my bike is, has confirmed that have 14 Gauge nipples.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 08:59:02 PM by Adamsavage79 »

Offline Adamsavage79

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Re: Replacement Spokes
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 01:09:05 AM »
Wheel is done. There was a slight problem. The nipple head was a little too small, so they just used spoke washers. The wheel looks and feels normal. The rest of the kit is fine. The replacement throttle works. The only puzzling thing is that 5 wires ripped out of the old throttle, but when I was able to open it up. I could only see 3 wires. I don't know where the other 2 are, or where they were connected to. I would like to be able to attempt to fix it, and use it a 2nd spare. I have a thumb throttle I can use, if I needed. However, I hate thumb throttle. So it's only a spare.