MP5 spoke problems

[Socalbiker]

I'm at almost 900 miles with my MP5 and the only big problem has been spokes. I've had to take apart several times to recover loose nipples from rim. Started daily checks, and seems to be ok now. Bigger problem is broken spokes I'm up to 4 now and worse I'm shut down for a week waiting for replacements.

I've looked at some posts that are 2-4 years old on this topic:
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=5255.msg30342#msg30342
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3187.msg19204;topicseen#msg19204
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3746.msg25508#msg25508

 I started lacing using Bikemad's suggestion to lace with the heads on inside of flange. This method requires quite a bend in the spoke and the thread arrive at an angle to hole in rim. Can the MP5 be that much different than the MPIII in post that spokes won't work laced in this method?

Since I have to wait a few days to have enough spokes to re-lace wheel I'm hoping to hear from others about how they have overcome the broken spoke syndrome.

thx

[Bikemad]

I started lacing using Bikemad's suggestion to lace with the heads on inside of flange. This method requires quite a bend in the spoke and the thread arrive at an angle to hole in rim. Can the MP5 be that much different than the MPIII in post that spokes won't work laced in this method?

I applied pressure to the spoke as close as possible to the elbow to try and bend the elbow a bit tighter rather than bend the spoke along its length. I tried to bend them just enough to allow the spoke to correctly align with the hole in the rim when the play between the flange hole and spoke elbow was taken up without having to force (flex) the spoke.
Ideally, the entire inner radius of the elbow should be touching against the radiused hole in the flange so that it is properly supported.

A correctly supported elbow does not flex with each revolution of the wheel, or when the motor or the disc brake pulls upon the spokes. And if it doesn't flex, then it should not loosen, fatigue or break. 

On a new wheel, the spokes (which are very often not tensioned enough in the first place) will generally loosen considerably as they settle themselves in when the wheel is first used.  If you simply re-tighten them correctly, they should eventually reach a stage where they are almost completely settled in, and the spokes should then remain adequately tensioned for a long time.

I personally have never experienced a broken spoke on any of my GM hubs, and I don't physically check the tension of the spokes as often as they should be checked. 
When spokes initially starts to work loose, you can often hear the wheel creaking slightly as it rotates under load, because the spokes begin to flex due to movement either between the nipples and the rim or the spoke elbows and the holes in the hub flanges.

Pinging all the spokes or tapping them with a metal object (a screwdriver shaft or small spanner etc.) is an easy way to tell if any of the spokes are noticeably looser than the rest.
A low pitched dull ping usually indicates that the spokes are too loose and in need of tensioning, whereas a higher pitched clear ping on all the spokes is the sound that you really want to hear.

Alan
 

[Socalbiker]

So while I didn't re-spoke as suggested by Bikemad once I went through the effort of re-trueing and making all spokes tight I didn't break any spokes until....

the 'paved' roads I commute on brutal for the Golden Motor rim. After the first bad pothole I was able to straighten side of rim where it was bent and ride for another couple of hundred miles, the next pothole damaged beyond repair. I replaced with a beefier rim and found a good wheel builder who used 12 gauge spokes and a cross pattern. Will update post on reliability in a few months. see picture of new wheel.

Update Aug2019: I have now passed the 10,000 mile mark with this wheel/rim setup & only one broken spoke at about 4000 miles.

[Hastings]

Why have Golden motors not adressed this even in the 5th iteration of the wheel ?

I have used two complementary methods in combination on my older wheel; a MPII or III- I haven't a clue...):

1a) I got tired of loose spokes even if I retightened them: so I used LOCTITE® THREADLOCKER BLUE 242® which allow for adjustment but does not unscrew. However this does not solve the breakage problem !

If the nipple gets stuck you could just heat it with a small gas flame.

1b) However I learned to retread ad modum Bikemad or 2) below without loosing the nipple in the rim by holding the nipple with a Peang (here is a link for the not so surgically inclined :http://www.clasohlson.com/se/B%C3%B6jd-peang-2-pack/40-7319) when replacing the spoke.

2) I have used small stainless washers around the spoke to get a proper support for the spoke in the too deep countersink  : they need to be conical. The easiest way is to punch them with a drill or something similar on a piece of wood. One or two washers are needed depending on their thickness.

Both Bikemad´s method and mine stops spoke breakage if  the spokes are thigh enough.

[StadsImker]

Hello,

I have / had a lot of problems with my MP5 concerning spokes. My spoke break or nipples untided and even drop into the rim. I agree the GM rim delivered with the GM MP5 is not strong enough and flexes too much. This is the reason that nipples get untide, losen spokes and the rim start to flex even more... 

I think people who use the wheel/rim on normal bikes don't have this problem if the spoke tension is correct. But I think the tension is not good after leaving factory. And all problems strat there...

I use my MP5 26" on a special very heavy transport tricycle.(see my avatar) Therefor I don't blame GM for the problems, but I hope they start to see that not all GM users use there rims on nice paved paths. But also on nice stone paved paths with tiles of 30x30 cm. My rim loves the small space between the tiles. and starts following this tiny gap through flexing!  and breaking spokes & losening up nipples. On rough roads I feel the rim really flexing and spokes pings of breaking. After such ride I come home and have 7 spokes with big problems, broken and nippels falen of into the rim.

I hope GM will antisepate with strong steel rims and hopefully not a standard steel one for normal bicycle use but for off-road use. Also thicker spokes. G12 or even G11 would very much help to solve the spoke breaking problems.

To prevent nipples losening up, I now use a little transparant nailpolis on the point where nipple and spoke meet. And this helps very much! When the rim flexes the nipples don't losen up.

But my GM rim loves to follow the lines in between pavement stones. ----\_/---- The GM wheels flexes extremly and follows the gap like it is magnetic. Only bigger corrections gets the wheel out of these small gaps.

I hope GM will take this rim problem serious and will fix it. Because it will fix the nipple and spoke breaking problems. The last two problems are I my opinion thye result of the flexiing and to soft double layer alu rim. Also the width of the rim is much too small and helps the problems to be BIG.

Holland is THE bicycle capital in the world. Everyone ownes one or more bikes and only a very few bikes have double layer alu rims. Good bycicles will have steel rims. Only ultra light touring or racebikes have alu rims those bikes are not recomment for daily use by school cildren or daily city travel.
But GM-motor users are not ultra light bicycle users in my opinion. They like fast, rough.

Hope to see strong steel rims asap. Also hope to see 3mm spokes. I would buy these things immedialtly even without looking at cost !!! Just compatiblaty is for me important. Custom made rims are NOT for a fair price availeble and bicycle repair shops don't provide them... Or you get an hour tarif of 60 euro's with out any materials and they will spend a lot of hours... and no-garanties. Than a rim would cost more than a GM MP5! 

Greetings,
Philip

[Socalbiker]

So while I didn't re-spoke as suggested by Bikemad once I went through the effort of re-trueing and making all spokes tight I didn't break any spokes until....

the 'paved' roads I commute on brutal for the Golden Motor rim. After the first bad pothole I was able to straighten side of rim where it was bent and ride for another couple of hundred miles, the next pothole damaged beyond repair. I replaced with a beefier rim and found a good wheel builder who used 12 gauge spokes and a cross pattern. Will update post on reliability in a few months. see picture of new wheel.

I've put about another 900 miles on the re-built rim. No loose or broken spokes, no bent rims, Yeah!
      I did manage to my bike frame at the axle dropouts and the chain stay near bottom bracket, sadness

[Socalbiker]

update on spokes:
Went about 4000 miles before I broke a spoke with this setup.

[Bikemad]

Did the spoke break at the elbow or the nipple end?

Alan
 

[Socalbiker]

nipple. They always break at the nipple

[StadsImker]

Small tip: To prevent nibbles to come lose you can use some transparent nail polish. Just put a little bit and your nibble will not come lose any more.