Author Topic: Software settings optimalization  (Read 8275 times)

Offline Dias

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Software settings optimalization
« on: August 09, 2016, 03:25:12 PM »
Hello guys, after a bit of trouble with brakes I got the bike operational (without e-brakes, for now - got a circuit breaker key in case of a failure, at least until I find a viable "mod" to my current brakes).

Sadly, I run across another minor issue. On my way back from work MP got really lazy in the end. I have 48V setup with 12S, 16Ah LiPo (50.4V max). On my way to work MP consumed like 3V so on my way back I started at 47.4V. I know it is "undervolted" already but when I arrived home it was 46.1V. I understand the battery discharging cycle and I know there is the most power in between ~3.6V-4.1V. The trip was approx 20km in total, I pedalled in hills and there should be over 50% of the power left. Yet, the MP already got lazy in the end.

My question is: is there a "tweak" to tell MP not to give up so early? I can safely go down to 43.2V.

(rainy weather here, muddy tires, and I got a cool idea that my GF would really appreciate - lift the back, turn the throttle => white wall goes brown  ;D)

Offline Unbalanced

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Re: Software settings optimalization
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 04:01:59 PM »
I'm running the same battery as you and decided to "own" the low voltage cut off by setting the battery voltage in the software to 36V. (we're limited to 48V,36v and 24v lithium selection in the software).  I have a simple digital volt meter that monitors the pack voltage (I re-charged when my pack gets to 45V - average 3.75v/cell min) that way the controller wont go into low voltage cut off because you're using a different battery cell count and chemistry.

Offline Unbalanced

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Re: Software settings optimalization
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 04:06:08 PM »
Be careful going below 3.7V/cell with lipo, the discharge curve gets pretty steep below that voltage.

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Software settings optimalization
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 09:58:10 PM »
I'm running the same battery as you and decided to "own" the low voltage cut off by setting the battery voltage in the software to 36V. (we're limited to 48V,36v and 24v lithium selection in the software).

If you use the 48V battery setting and then lower the Undervoltage protection value (V) to 34V it should allow the battery to discharge down to 2.83V per cell under load before the current is automatically reduced to prevent over-discharging the battery.

Most wattmeters will record the lowest battery voltage under load during the trip, which should not be lower than the value entered into the Undervoltage protection value (V) setting.

Using 36V as the Nominal battery voltage (V) setting with a 12S LiPo pack, may cause the regen to remain inoperative until the battery has been substantially discharged.

Alan
 

Offline Dias

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Re: Software settings optimalization
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2016, 06:04:51 AM »
Thanks for your replies. Sadly I havent managed to get a perfect BMS for my build so I have no other undervoltage protection except the bluetooth module or software settings: BMS[/acronym]-PCB-System-/221274094989]http://www.ebay.com/itm/44V-48V-50-4V-12S-30A-Lithium-ion-Li-ion-LiPo-Li-Polymer-Battery-BMS-PCB-System-/221274094989. Charging up works perfectly and stops at 50.4V but the discharge protection of this BMS is invalid "Over-discharged threshold: 2.90 ± 0.05 V".

I hoped that I could solve the possibility of over discharging by setting controller to cut off at 44V (3.66V per cell). I don't want my cells to get any lower, but the motor is already lazy at 47V with over 50% of juice left in my batteries. If it started slowing down at 45V it would be ok.

I wont use regen so I am only limited by software.  Anyways, I just checked the log and I noticed a weird min voltage number - today I went from 48.9V to 47.2V, but the min voltage says 44.9V. Might be a software issue or a spike but it occurs during every trip. I don't understand how the controller works, but is it possible that this is the issue? Does it happen to you guys aswell?

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Software settings optimalization
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2016, 02:52:10 PM »
Today I went from 48.9V to 47.2V, but the min voltage says 44.9V. Might be a software issue or a spike but it occurs during every trip. I don't understand how the controller works, but is it possible that this is the issue? Does it happen to you guys as well?

The 47.2V at the end of your trip is the "no load" voltage, whereas the minimum recorded 44.9V is under full load.
Under load, the battery voltage will always drop, but some batteries will drop more than others.
You have not given much information on the batteries being used, so I'm guessing that you are using a pair of these Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh Multi-Rotor Lipo Packs connected in series:

These batteries are basically intended for continuous low current use.

Although a Magic Pie at full current will only be loading these batteries to ~2C output (32A), the voltage sag will still be very noticeable, and dropping to 3.66V per cell under this amount of load is probably quite normal.

I use 20C continuous 30C peak 5000mAh Turnigy LiPo packs, but these also suffer from a significant voltage drop under high current conditions.
A 9C load (45A or 45% of its continuous current rating) can easily result in a minimum voltage of ~3.5V per cell,  even within the first 25% of the battery's capacity being used (1250mAh).

I suspect that your motor is becoming "lazy" because the controller voltage is actually reaching your minimum 44V cut off voltage under load and the current is automatically being reduced by the controller.  ;)
And I think you'll find that the 0.9V difference between the minimum recorded voltage and the minimum set voltage is caused by the additional voltage drop on the battery wires between your wattmeter, battery monitor or Cycle Analyst's shunt etc. and the controller.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 02:55:17 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Dias

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Re: Software settings optimalization
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2016, 04:55:35 PM »
Perfect guess Alan, I use these, just 3x4 packs ;D. I don't mind these drops - I just wanted to know if its normal. It happened to me a few times that the bike was lazy and when I stopped throttling and started again a while later it went a little faster. Everything explained I think. I probably don't have to worry about these spikes and just set the controller to lower voltage cutoff. We will see what happens.

Thanks a lot for your help and support - I will post new results tomorrow.