Author Topic: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A  (Read 4735 times)

Offline Sourcefinder

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Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« on: June 19, 2016, 09:33:51 AM »
Hi,

I have bought a 20kW BLDC motor and a HPC 700 controller 96V560A.
I also want to use the 96V 300A contactor and the twist throttle.

My first problem is, that the contactor does not close.
When I connect the +pole of battery directly to the controller, the controller works.

What settings are neccessary in the software to close the contactor?

It is the 96V 300A contactor from golden motor.
Battery voltage is around 100V.

Thanks!
Hermann

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2016, 11:59:36 AM »
Hi Hermann andto the forum.

Is your contactor wired the same as the one shown on the HPC controller wiring diagram?
If it is, check the voltage across the terminals connected to pins 2 and 3 of the controller when battery voltage is supplied to pin 1 of the controller via the power switch.



I assume there is some form of pre-charge system on this controller, but I don't know whether the contactor windings are energised only when the controller voltage reaches close to battery voltage, or whether the voltage gradually rises as the capacitors in the controller charge up until the voltage is high enough to operate the contactor.

If the voltage across the windings is over 90V but the contactor has not switched, it would seem to indicate that the contactor is faulty.
If the voltage across the windings remains at ~0V, try measuring the voltage between the one of the terminals on the contactor and each of the terminals on the battery to determine whether it is at a high or low voltage, and then make a note of the voltage reading and let us know what it was.

If it is high in relation to the battery negative terminal,  leave your voltmeter connected to see what happens to the reading when you power off the controller using the power switch.
If the voltage gradually drops to ~0V (which I would expect it to do) watch it carefully as you power on the controller again.
Check if the voltage starts to rise slowly, jumps up instantly or only jumps up after a slight delay, and let us know what it does.

I don't know what settings are available with the HPC controller software (or whether they would even affect the operation of the contactor) but check that the minimum and maximum voltage settings are set for your battery's expected working voltage range.

It is obviously not a battery voltage problem, as 100V should be well within the typical 96V coil working voltage range of 84V~108V.

Alan
 

Offline Sourcefinder

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2016, 03:00:49 PM »
Hi Alan,

Thanks for your reply.

I have exactly connected the contactor as it is on the drawings.
My contactor looks like attached.

When I startet controller first time I thought I could use any contactor that works on 12V coil voltage.
So I blowed one contactor. Then I bought the right one from goldenmotor which should run on 96V coil voltage. (I tried it with up to 30V on an external power supply which was not enough to close the contactor).

If I don't use any contactor I get the fault code "current shutdown of dc contractor1(PIN3)"
When I put the two wires on the coilcontacts this error does not occur.
I can read around 4V between the two wires.
When I measured with the blowed contractor I could measure around 80V on it.

So it looks like the controller measures if there is a contactor or not and decides what to do.
But it looks like it does not accept the new contactor that will work on 96V but acceptet the old one that works on 12V.

Its little bit confusing to use contactors coil voltage and also ignition key voltage of 96V which would make troubles for homologisation......

I also got some resistors with the contactor....
Maybe I need to use them in parallel to the coil wires to make the controller think everything is ok....

« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 03:02:42 PM by Sourcefinder »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 12:51:30 AM »
That doesn't sound good, as I am concerned that the very low resistance of the 12V coil (probably 64 times lower than the correct contactor) may have overloaded and damaged one or more of the components producing the contactor winding's voltage supply from the controller when it (presumably) blew the windings of the 12v coil on the incorrect contactor.

Did it make a loud pop or emit a strong burnt smell from within the controller after the incident?

I don't know what the resistor supplied with the contactor is meant to be used for, but I'm more inclined to think that it is meant to be used in series with the contactor windings (rather than in parallel with them) to possibly allow a slightly longer pre-charge or perhaps to accommodate a slightly higher lithium type battery voltage.

I suggest you contact David Andy at GM China and explain the problem to him and see what he suggests.

Please let us know what he says.

Alan
 

« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:16:51 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Sourcefinder

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2016, 06:30:23 AM »
Hi Allen,

all I know till now is that the controller can also work without contactor which makes me happy because I did not blow the controller (and it works without contactor).

By googling on youtube I found a lot of videos where they rund golden motor controller without any contactor...

Anyway, I would like to know how to get it run with the contactor for safety reasons (of course there is another contactor in-line which is controlled by battery management system).

I sent mail to goldenmotor and will tell you when I have a solution.

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2016, 10:53:56 AM »
Well,

Goldenmotor told me that it will work without contactor.
Attached is the connecting diagram.

I bought a 5kOhm potentiometer to use it as throttle.

I did it like that, but still have problems.

Every time when the battery management system closes the main contactor it gets stuck.
So now I have to stucked Kilovac contactors which should be able to withstand 500V and 500Amps.

Once the circuit is closed the controller and the motor work.

Yesterday the 300Amp fuse on the controller was blowed, I have no idea why.......

Any ideas what to do?

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2016, 01:13:49 PM »
Although it will work without a contactor, it does not sound like a good solution.
To prevent the main contacts inside the contactors from arcing themselves together you need to use some form of pre-charge system to charge up the capacitors in the controller before the contactor is energised.

You could use a simple momentary push button switch and suitable resistors to pre-charge the controller before manually switching on the contactor. If you have a voltmeter connected between the controller main feed and ground, you would see the voltage rise when the button is pressed until it is near battery voltage and ready for the contactor to then connect without arcing.

I would suggest using a resistance of ~1000 ohms with a 10 Watts power handling capability.

Four of these 1000 ohm 5W resistors:



connected in a series parallel configuration:



would be equivalent to a single 1000 ohms 20 Watts resistor which would limit the pre-charge current to ~0.1A, so you wouldn't need a heavy duty push button switch.

I am surprised that the 300A fuse has blown, as I would still have expected it to withstand the initial high inrush current surge when the controller is connected to the battery without first being precharged.
But, as the contactors are apparently unable to withstand this high current burst, perhaps it is also too much for the fuse to withstand.

As you cannot easily dismantle the stuck contactors to separate the contacts, you may be able to shock the contacts apart by tapping the flat end of the contactor (the opposite end to the connectors) against a solid piece of wood.
Hopefully a little tapping (or heavy duty bangs) will eventually cause the contacts to separate.

Make up a simple circuit with a battery and bulb connected across the two main contacts and keep tapping/banging the contactor until the bulb goes out. If it doesn't work on the flat end, try banging it on the sides instead.
The contactors are currently unusable as they are, so you have nothing to lose by trying to get them working again.  ;)

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:16:28 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Sourcefinder

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2016, 03:57:12 PM »

Hi,

As you told me I built kind of precharge-unit.

I have a 220ohm 100Watt resistor that limits the current to ~0,5Amps (Voltage is 100V).
After 15 seconds - I measured >90Volts on the controllers terminals - the main contactor is closed.

I did not use the vehicle in real life, just ran the motor a few seconds in the garage with no load.
But this is enough to get the next new kilovac contactor stuck.
In the specification it says 900V DC and 500Amps.
I have only 100V and a very low current because there was no load.....

:-(
Each contactor costs >140,- Euro

I used the Kilovac LEV200A4ANA.

I don't understand how the contactors connectors can melt when together when they are already closed.....

Thanks
Hermann

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2016, 09:14:39 PM »
Hi Hermann,

Something does not sound right, as the precharge should prevent most of the initial current surge when energising the contactor and I'm now wondering whether the high current occurs only when the motor is running.  ::)

Did you try opening and closing the contactor (with the precharge resistors) a few times before you test ran the motor?

If the phase wire and/or Hall sensor wire configuration was wrong (or if there was a short circuit in one of the stator windings) this could cause an unexpectedly high current draw, which might also explain the blown 300Amp fuse.

Do you have an ammeter fitted to monitor the current draw when the motor is running with no load?

If not, is there a distinct voltage drop at the battery when the throttle is operated?

As the 20kW motor appears to have two sets of phase wires, I assume it contains dual stators and therefore two independent sets of windings.  If so, it might be worth running it on one set of windings at a time to see if there is any noticeable difference between the two different sets of windings, but make sure you safely insulate the disconnected terminals. ;)
Any difference in the running of the motor could indicate a problem with one set of the motor windings.

If it runs the same on either set of windings, then I suggest you contact Andy (an engineer at GM in China) and explain the problem to him, as I am running out of useful suggestions.

Also, did you have any success in trying to free off either of the two other stuck contactors?

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 08:36:25 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Sourcefinder

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2016, 07:14:21 AM »
Hi Alan,

Thanks for your quick reply.

Yes, I tested the precharging without the connecting controller and it works fine.
It still works and tries to connect the main contactor after 15 seconds but it is already closed...

I checked the current at full speed with no load, it`s around 25A which should be no problem for the contactor.

Unfortunately I cant try to repair the stuck contactor because they are sealed vacuum contactors....

Thanks
Hermann

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Re: Questions HPC 700 controller 96V560A
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2016, 05:01:02 PM »
Next try, next fail.

I have now a 50 Ohm 100watt resistor for precharge.

If system is powered on, precharge starts. Key-switch is off.
After some time (this can be set-up by a time-relais) the main contactor is closed and precharge circuit is opened. At the same time a relais closes key switch and controller should be ready for use.

I tried it without connecting the controller and it works fine.

After this I connected the controller.
Precharging starts and voltages climbs up to around 50 Volts very quickly (battery voltage is 100 Volts).

But then voltage stops climbing up, it stays around 50 Volts.
Then I noticed some fog and bad smell comming out of the controller.

The outside cover of the controller was melt....

I guess I have to send the controller now back for repairing......