Problem getting the motor power

[Void7775]

hi.
i've bought a golden motor which has the motor all black like this:
http://img03.olx.ro/images_mercadorro/60988502_2_644x461_kit-golden-motor-electric-1000w-pt-biciclete-mtb-fotografii_rev002.jpg
1000w 48v. 20A controller
i bought new lead 12v 18ah batteries. (initial current 5A)
i've connected all the wires right (i double checked. I also looked at the instructions manual) but the led lights from the throttle don't light up at all.
the screen lights up and shows info. if I push the throttle just a bit .. the motor pushes a bit(but not too much..it barely moves the bike without me on it). but if I push it more it chockes and rattles.. and in the same time a car battery sign flashes on the screen. but I don't understand why.. the batteries are brand new. and I checked the voltage for all. it's 12.8v.
thanks for reading.
the info of the batteries:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oomipood.ee%2Ffailid%2FPS18-12.pdf&ei=Qj-dVZ3BF8nX7Qb9t42oBg&usg=AFQjCNELjoteHKjUt8P4Lde7ka9rNykzbg&sig2=PfJYWbICVZfZ6f3lNQjH1g

[Void7775]

at the start the screen shows that battery is full.. but when I turn the throttle it quickly goes to 20% and shows the battery sign.

[Void7775]

another thing I noticed was that the regenerative brakes weren't braking the wheel when I pressed the brake.

[Void7775]

1.the controller came in the same box. this is the kit that I have. it's from golden motors
http://img03.olx.ro/images_mercadorro/60988502_2_644x461_kit-golden-motor-electric-1000w-pt-biciclete-mtb-fotografii_rev002.jpg
2.i pushed the big red blue yellow wires well together and now the motor doesn't start. it just makes a click when I open the screen. and a click like the mouse click when I push the throttle.
3.yesterday i've put a battery to charge and the led went from green to red on the charger. then after 2 hours it flashed red-green on and off. which I interpret as beeing charged.
4.i've put the voltmeter to the series batteries and it says 51V.
5.i'm putting the other batteries to charge too until I see the green led flash. after that I will post again with the results.
6.i tried also putting 3 batteries together instead of 4. the lcd started up but it showed that the battery is empty. the motor didn't start.
7.you recommend that I switch the blue yellow wires?
8.i'm using small wire crocodiles to connect the batteries in series and to the controller. they don't heat up at all. could this be the main problem? http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1304017648/Free-shipping-20pcs-Double-ended-font-b-Crocodile-b-font-font-b-Alligator-b-font-Clips.jpg
9.note that I didn't connect the brake wires,pedelec wires last time.. just the throttle and batteries. now I connected all the things I could(without putting them on the bike wheel)  in case this was the problem but the motor still didn't start.

thanks

[Bikemad]

Hi andto the forum.

Although the hubmotor appears to be a GoldenMotor unit, I have not yet come across any kits supplied by GoldenMotor with that particular controller and display unit.
If it is a GM controller, it is possible that it might be the older style regenerative controller, but I have not seen those for sale for many years. I suspect it is a non-GM controller that does not support regen.

Those wires are much too small to carry the current required for a 1000W motor and will definitely cause a huge voltage drop under load which is why your battery indicator drops so low. If you put a voltmeter directly across one of the wires you should see the voltage rise as soon as a load is applied. Ideally there should be no voltage showing across the length of each of the connecting wires.

I suggest you connect the batteries with some more suitable heavier gauge wire and see what happens. If you still have problems with the running and power of the motor it could be the phase and/or Hall sensor wires are connected incorrectly.

I suggest you contact your supplier to find out exactly how that particular controller should be wired to the GM motor as most non-GM controllers are generally wired slightly differently to the GM controllers.

Alan
 

[Void7775]

hi. thanks. I will put better wires and post later.
more info:
the motor always clicked when I turned it on. and few days ago when the engine was working a bit.. the wheel spinned at high speed if it was off the ground. but when it was on the ground it gave problems.
this is the lcd. I will try and find the manual http://g02.s.alicdn.com/kf/HT1ewNAFS4dXXagOFbXu/200521947/HT1ewNAFS4dXXagOFbXu.jpg
the second battery charged fully in 1h too. which would indicate that it was nearly full.
i saw that other people have gel batteries.. I have lead-acid. could this be a problem?

10. the voltage shows exactly 51.8v
11.i tried all the combinations on the wires but it only clicks like before.
12.the screen shows a belt with an M letter inside it .. which didn't appear when the motor was pushing a bit. =(M)= . I don't know what it means. and it shows up even after I disconnect the power from the batteries.
when the wheel pushed a bit..the battery had 12.8v.. then I charged it(only one battery) and it has 13.08v but the motor now doesn't push at all.

[Void7775]

the people who sold it are just importers.. they surely don't know technical stuff.

[Void7775]

i've put better wires but still no start. what does =(M)= mean  on the screen?

[Void7775]

this is the controller I have http://screencast.com/t/yswx1xmaQMYo
i got the picture from here http://www.dhgate.com/product/36v-250w-small-motor-18inch-powerful-ebike/180373624.html
i also opened the controller to see inside. it looks good and doesn't smell burnt.
i changed the wires but still the motor doesn't start.

[Bikemad]

1.the controller came in the same box. this is the kit that I have. it's from golden motors
http://img03.olx.ro/images_mercadorro/60988502_2_644x461_kit-golden-motor-electric-1000w-pt-biciclete-mtb-fotografii_rev002.jpg
2.i pushed the big red blue yellow wires well together and now the motor doesn't start.

Something is definitely wrong here as GoldenMotor use Yellow, Green and Blue for the phase wires on all their motors and controllers, a thick Red wire would be for the battery + connection to the controller. (Unless you're Red-Green colour-blind like I am  )

the people who sold it are just importers.. they surely don't know technical stuff.

Unfortunately, if the product is faulty, it is your supplier's duty to rectify the problem (either a refund or replacement etc.)

I suspect that the controller and the wheel may not have been connected correctly (Phase and/or Hall sensor wires) and the controller (and possibly the Hall sensors) may have been overloaded and damaged as a result of the incorrect connections.

You can check that the Hall sensors are still working correctly by measuring the voltage on each of the Yellow, Green and Blue wires at the Hall sensor connector while the wheel is turned very slowly by hand with the battery connected and the black meter probe connected to the battery - connection.
The voltage on each of the three Hall sensor wires should alternate between 0V and 5V as the wheel is slowly turned by hand.
Take a look at this post and this video for more details on testing the operation of the Hall sensors.

If the Hall sensors are still working properly and the motor still doesn't run it is probably the controller that has failed.

the motor always clicked when I turned it on. and few days ago when the engine was working a bit.. the wheel spinned at high speed if it was off the ground. but when it was on the ground it gave problems.

i saw that other people have gel batteries.. I have lead-acid. could this be a problem?

10. the voltage shows exactly 51.8v

A high wheel speed under no load which struggles when load is applied could be caused by a mismatched Phase/Hall wire combination.

The type of battery chemistry should not make any difference to your particular problem, with 51.8V available the motor should work (Assuming you have a 48V controller).

Alan
 

[Void7775]

my bad. it's "Yellow, Green and Blue".
the last time the motor ran I was pushing the bike with my hands to see how much force it gives. but it didn't "break" then. it worked and I just switched it off.
the all the wires give 5v without alternating at all while I turn the wheel (the wheel is on the ground.. and I just push the bike to turn the wheel). what does this mean? the black -red wire gives 4,37v.

[Bikemad]

The all the wires give 5v without alternating at all while I turn the wheel (the wheel is on the ground.. and I just push the bike to turn the wheel). what does this mean? the black -red wire gives 4,37v.

If you're getting a constant 5V reading on each of the Yellow, Green and Blue Hall sensor wires with the Hall sensor connector plugged into the wheel it would appear that either all three Hall sensors have failed and will need to be replaced (unless the controller is somehow overriding The Hall sensors by supplying the 5V feeds that you are measuring).

If the Hall sensors are definitely faulty, it is also possible that the failed Hall sensors might have damaged the controller, but you won't be able to find out until the Hall sensors have been replaced (or you try the controller on another wheel).

Here are your three main options:

• Return the faulty kit for either refund or replacement.
• Replace the Hall sensors and see if it cures the problem.
• Purchase a suitable sensorless controller that does not require the use of Hall sensors.

lyen@hotmail.com

he sells an infineon sensorless controller....i purchased a 48V which runs perfect

You will have to decide which option to go for.

Alan
 

[Void7775]

can't I open the motor and check somehow if the sensors are good? instead of replacing them..

[Bikemad]

It is very unlikely that all three sensor output wires are disconnected, but if there was a break or poor connection on the common ground or feed wires (the thin Black and Red wires) connected to the three sensors, it could prevent them all from working.

You should check with your supplier that you are not going to invalidate the warranty by dismantling the motor before you take anything apart.

Alan
 

[Void7775]

there is no warranty. what should I do after I open the motor?