Sp4 acting up again, buzzing and vibrating

[Bikemad]

Should I be seeing 2 on at a time? I have the controller open now and am moving it a bit then checking and occasionally the yellow will be on with the green or blue, I haven't seen the blue and green on together.

It looks like you should, check out the six step sequence on this three phase motor animation:



Alan

[Thuktun]

When I tested it by hand before putting it together they would all turn on and off with the same poles.

There was some info on the Honeywell data sheet re magnetic characteristics that wasn't covered on the other, the problem with data sheets from different manufacturers. I'm assuming it's the part for now, hoping the SS41s get here soon so I can try them.

[Thuktun]

Look what came in the mail! 3 Honeywell SS41s. I'll put them in tomorrow and see what happens.

[Thuktun]

I put an SS41 in there, partially assembled the motor, checked am getting 3.24v or 0.01v on the yellow lead depending on where the motor is. Continued assembling motor, hooked everything up and......

.....same problem. Throttle does nothing until the wheel is moving about 7km/hr and it vibrates when it does move. I didn't ride it so I can't speak to the reduced power but I'm sure that is there too, I haven't put the freewheel back on yet.

So I opened it up again and double checked, still getting a 3.22-3.24v signal on all 3 wires depending on motor position. I checked for continuity in the motor windings, no problem there. I think it wouldn't work at all if there was a problem, right?

Now what? Does the fact I'm only getting a 3v signal have anything to do with it? I would think none of them would work if that was it. Can it be the controller?

[Bikemad]

What voltage do you have between the Red and Black Hall sensor feed wires?
I would expect it to be between 4.5~5V.

Also make sure that the five hall sensor contacts are correctly seated inside the connector and have not been pushed out of the connector housing. If this has happened, they might be making a connection when you push the meter probe into the rear of the connector and losing the connection when the probe is removed again. 

Check the motor windings by removing the controller and clamping the axle in a vice etc. and then short together the Yellow and Green Phase wires and feel the resistance preventing the wheel from turning.
Do the same teat with the Yellow and Blue and Blue and Green wires to confirm the braking effect is the same on all three pairs.

If one combination is noticeably different to the other two combinations it would indicate a problem with the stator windings or one of the connecting wires.

If everything checks out OK I suspect the controller may have been damaged when the Hall sensor failed.

Alan
 

[Thuktun]

Connector looks good, resistance seems the same for all three short combinations, but to be honest I'm not sure I felt much of anything beyond the normal resistance from a dead stop. I tried it with power applied and not, same either way.

This is where I am now. When I test on the connector for the hall sensors I get 4.2v on the red wire and either 0.01v or between 3.2 and 3.24v on the yellow, blue and green wires as I rotate the wheel. If I disconnect the connector and just check the pin for the red wire sticking out of the board it reads 4.6v. Each phase wire for the motor shows 0.06v at rest. When I apply throttle I hear a faint click, either in the controller or the motor itself, hard to say which but no other response besides a green flashing led on the controller board. Checking the phase wires in this state shows the same 0.06v on all three. I release the throttle, spin the wheel up by hand and apply throttle and cruise control so my hands are free and check again. Same 4.2v on the red wire for the hall sensors power and 1.6v on each signal wire. I assume that's because they are on half the time. Checking the phase wires for the motors is the same, 26v on each, half the supply voltage.

What can it be? From the voltage when running looks like everything is working isn't it? Or no because the stator coils are all one so the three contacts will all be the same voltage?

[Thuktun]

Would it hurt anything if I disconnected on phase wire at a time and tried to run the motor and see if each post is getting power?

[Bikemad]

I don't think it will cause a problem, as long as you don't accidentally short out the terminal or allow the end of the loose wire to touch any of the controller components, as the clear protective coating is very easy to pierce.

Alan
 

[Thuktun]

Wish I had an oscilloscope. I disconnected each wire one at a time. At a stop each wire reads 0.06v. With the yellow disconnected the post reads the same when off. Hand spin the motor, apply throttle and cruise control, the blue and green read 26v, the yellow wire 26v, the yellow post 6v, varying by approx 0.5v once or twice a second.

With the blue and green wires off (one at a time) I was unable to get the throttle to engage at all. While the wheel was spinning with the throttle held down (but as I said no power being applied from the motor) all wires and the disconnected post were showing 26v for both blue and green being disconnected.

If I had someone here to help I'd test what happens with the braking (it vibrates when I brake too) but I just don't have enough arms.

So what does that mean engaging with the yellow off but not the other two? And the mismatch in voltages on the posts?

I've been reading all afternoon about controllers and one site said something about controllers blowing when a hall sensor fails and you give throttle from a dead stop. Exactly the conditions I experienced. I had just gone up a fairly long but not steep hill. I can't imagine the motor was hot, I had just left the house and it was about 6 degrees out. I stopped just fine and went to go and nothing. Kicked with my feet and it came on.

If it was just a sensor why does it have to be faster than 7km/hr to engage? Wouldn't the problem be limited to trying to move when the magnets were not in the right position? How would the speed be a factor? Any motion should line the other 2 phases up for the motor to engage. Or has the sensor driven mode failed completely and the motor only runs in sensorless mode which only cuts in about 7km/hr assuming this controller has sensorless mode? And the vibration is due to something being wrong on the yellow phase, initially caused by whatever blew the hall sensor? Or maybe the controller went first and took the sensor with it?

My head hurts lol. Im leaning towards buying another controller (my third) and trying that. I've only got a bit over 400kms on it, disappointed in the failure rate. Did I get a lemon or do these things break a lot?

[Thuktun]

Crap, the controller is $175 now!!!!!!

[Bikemad]

Is your wheel still under warranty? If so you shouldn't have to pay for a replacement.

If the hall sensor had been intermittently faulty from new it might account for why both of the controllers have failed.
Now you have replaced the Hall sensor it will hopefully be OK with a replacement controller.

If the controller is only working on two of it's three phases it would definitely explain the rough running. It's like a three cylinder motor only running on two cylinders.

Alan
 

 

[Thuktun]

Yes, it's still under warranty. I'm going to refer Gary to this thread.

I'm no expert but it does seem that the controller is the issue now, that 6v reading on the yellow post...

[Thuktun]

New controller is on the way, Gary sent it Monday. I won't see it till next week though. Yay Canada Post! Lol

[Thuktun]

Got it today. Had to switch all the connectors because it's a new type apparently but it seems to work. I only tapped the throttle once and it started spinning smoothly then I stopped it again. I'll know for sure all is well when I ride to work in the morning. Thank you for all your help Alan.

[Bikemad]

It's good to hear that the controller has cured the problem, hopefully the problem will not reoccur now you have also replaced the Hall sensors.

Did you have to change just the phase wire connections or was the hall sensor connector different too?



Alan