Author Topic: Magic Pie 3 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..  (Read 7891 times)

Offline Brassman

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Hi have a problem with my new 48v 10amp battery purchased july 2014..
has been powering my Magic Pie 3 no problem..

turned on the power switch to day but failed to show lights on the
throttle..
checked all connections ..perfect...
Checked battery voltage ..full power showing........
The power is live from the battery and go's dead the minute I plug it
into the harness..
Disconnected the brake levers ..no joy ..still no power ..

Rigged up my old 36v frog case battery..Surprise surprise..full power to
throttle ( red light only as the throttle is 48v)
Working perfectly with the 36v battery...

Re connected the 48v..same issue ..no power going through to harness...
Voltage is reading 54v no loading....This is the normal reading I have been
getting from day 1...

Have charged as per usual every 4/5 days...No issues.....

Help would be much appreciated...
Brassman

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Magic Pie III 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 11:57:47 AM »
Hi Brassman andto the forum.

It sounds like either a poor connection on the power cable connectors, rainwater inside the battery or perhaps a switch problem.
Have a good look at the battery power terminals to make sure they are clean and not burned from arcing which can occur if the connection is poor or loose.

If the battery has been exposed to rain or damp it is possible that the BMS board inside the battery could be damp, which has been known to cause similar problems.

Another possible cause is loose or dirty contacts on the back of the keyswitch inside the battery. If these are not making a good connection it will allow the voltage to flow across the contacts without any load, but the voltage can immediately drop when any load is applied (i.e. plugging in your battery connector).

I had a similar problem which turned out to be the contact plate coming loose on the rear of the keyswitch:



The cables soldered onto the end cover were pulling the fixed contact plate away from the moving contacts.



I pressed the end cover back in fully and then bent the wires more tightly at the switch end to make sure the wires were no longer trying to lever it off again and I have not experienced any further problems with the switch since this was done.

If you think the battery may have water inside you will need to keep it in a warm dry place until it dries out, or carefully remove the end cover and gently dry the BMS board with a hair dryer (making sure you do not allow it to get too hot).

I suggest you contact your supplier to obtain their permission to remove the end covers from the battery and ask them to confirm that it will not invalidate the warranty. ;)

If it has been caused by rainwater finding its way inside the battery, you might want to consider a waterproof cover for the battery like Andrew's:



Please let us know the outcome.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 03:36:19 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Brassman

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Re: Magic Pie III 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2015, 02:28:50 PM »
Many thanks for the reply Alan..
Checked all contacts ..all fine
No water as such as I do have a cover on the battery..
By passed the key switch .. Conected to bike ...Still the same issue ..
Stumped...

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Magic Pie III 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2015, 06:16:02 PM »
It sounds like it must be either the BMS playing up or perhaps a single faulty cell causing the BMS to shut the power off, but it's unusual for a cell to give up completely without prior notice (i.e a greatly reduced range).

You will need to remove the handle end of the battery to access the BMS board. hopefully you should be able to measure the voltages of each group of cells at the balance lead connector to see if they are all similar voltages.
The balance lead connector can be seen in the lower left hand side of this photo:




As yours is a LiFePO4 pack it will have 16 single rectangular 10Ah cells instead of the 13 groups of 3 x 4Ah cylindrical cells shown above.
In the above diagram you need to put the meter probes between Battery -ve and pin 1 of the connector to measure cell no 1, and between Battery +ve and pin 12 of the connector to measure cell no 13.

It might be easier to leave the black meter lead on the battery -ve connection and simply note down the readings obtained from each of the 12 pins and the Battery +ve lead.
Then you simply subtract the lowest of two adjacent readings from the highest to find the cell voltage.

To find the problem you will have to test cell voltages while the battery is turned on and plugged in to place a load on the BMS and battery cells.

The BMS board usually has a common +ve connection for the battery, the power output and the charging input, but the -ve connections are usually separate and are joined electronically through the BMS board.

If you can post some photos of the BMS board I will try and explain what each of the connections is for if they are not clearly marked already.

Take a look at Gary's post showing the dismantling of the LiFePO4 battery pack to get a better impression of what's inside.
Unfortunately Gary's photos show very little of the BMS board itself so I still don't know how many balance wires are connected, but I'm sure we will find out soon enough. ;)

Alan
 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:50:24 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Brassman

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Re: Magic Pie III 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 07:53:42 PM »
will do as suggested Alan and post findings. Thanks

Offline Brassman

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Re: Magic Pie III 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2015, 02:23:51 PM »
Hi Alan, tested all cells ..perfect at 3.2v..Disconected BMS..Conected battery to bike ..Works fine at full throttle..I presume this tells me the BMS is the fault.. Img attc of BMS
Brassman

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jydacla6whze68r/2015-02-11%2014.15.41.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tucrvzheuzp3kr/2015-02-11%2014.08.45.jpg?dl=0

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Magic Pie III 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2015, 03:54:53 PM »
If you unplug the balance lead connector and clip your meter negative probe to the battery negative terminal you can use the red meter probe held against a small safety pin to check the voltages on each of the connector sockets to confirm continuity of each of the balance wires.
If all 17 of the balance wires have good continuity to the cells (and the connector was plugged together properly) then it is likely to the BMS unit itself that is faulty, and hopefully your supplier will be able to send you a replacement BMS.

It might be worth carefully checking the soldered connections where the balance lead connector is soldered to the board to see if there is a dry joint (poor connection) on any of the pins, as re-soldering a poor joint would be a simple repair.

One of my LiPo chargers suddenly died completely about a year ago, so I pulled it apart and eventually discovered a bad joint where a component was soldered to the main circuit board, but I only found the problem after tracing the battery supply with my voltmeter. The joint looked good to the naked eye but the voltmeter confirmed that there was no continuity between the component's leg and the fillet of solder surrounding it. I re-soldered the joint properly and my dead charger came back to life again and is still in use a year later. :D

Alan
 

Offline Brassman

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Re: Magic Pie III 48v battery shutting down when plugged into harness..
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2015, 04:35:34 PM »
Checked all conections on BMS..All reading full continuity..Is this a given that the bms is faulty..Supplier will replace ..but at cost even though the battery is only 7 months old ..So much for warranty.
Again thanks for your help Alan... :)