folding ebike solution

[Garm@n]

Hello,  I'm new to this forum and I have been lurking the site for information. It seemed to make things worse. Anyway  I would like to build a 12" folding ebike for transport to work.  32km-40km would be my target and have the ability to climb hills at a reasonable speed (20K).
I have looked through this site I spoke with Gary.  He mentioned that he will be getting some 12" kits soon. (link)
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/12-Inch-Front-Smart-Pie-Conversion-Kit.html
My question is...  is this just a hub and would I need to re-spoke my present rim.
- Will this fit my criteria I mentioned earlier.
Now if I need to add the rim to this hub.  I was curious if it would fit.  Looking at the measurements provided, the hub has a diameter of 188mm, roughly 7.4 inches.  So I measured the inside of my rim on my bike and got 7.5 inches, this leaves me to believe it is either a hub/wheel kit or hub that will not fit my 12" rim.  So in further searching I found another kit, looks the same, but with a wheel in the diagram and same make and model (link, scroll near bottom)
http://www.goldenmotor.com/
If this is the same unit, how do I get the hub to fit, maybe the diagram provided incorrect?
Or can anyone suggest a better solution for my 12" folding bike.
Also If I do buy this, will my current tire fit into this kit.  The size of my tire is 12x2.25"
Thanks

[Garm@n]

I guess no way to edit?
Anyway wanted to add 2 things.  How would I add air to these wheels.  I can see how the valve would be accessible.  The other would anyone know how many rpm's this wheel/hub can provide. 

[GM Canada]

The item you are looking at is a complete kit. All you need is a tire, tube and a battery. The tire you have should be fine.

The description lists everything it the kit in the section Kit Includes:

Gary

[Garm@n]

Thanks Gary
So I found the chart you mentioned, I'm not sure how to properly read the chart provided. 
         V          A         w           PF     Hz      mN n      rpm     W        %
01-  47.94  1.085    52.00     1.000  0.00   403.3      374   15.80    30.4
09-  47.94  5.680    272.32   1.000  0.00   6563.3    335   230.23   84.5
12-  47.94  9.780    468.87   1.000  0.00   11813.3  307   379.76   81.0
23-  47.88  14.989  717.69   1.000  0.00   38373.3   31    124.56   17.4

I came up with this figure that I gleaned from result 01-
The top RPM (374)produces a result of 13.3mph.  Is that correct, or am I reading this wrong?  Anyway this seems very slow at full throttle.  Is there anyway I can tweak the controller to get me 20-25mph.

[Just]

Is this a motor for 12" wheel or a motor of 12" in diameter?

[Garm@n]

well I measured my tire and it is a 12 inch diameter.  now I am not sure what GM is selling me 12" diameter tire or rim size.  let me know this is important,  but again speed is a issue. the way it stands

[Just]

so, what's diameter of the motor itself? What's top speed? torque?

[Garm@n]

frankly I don't know. I was hoping people with the 16" version would step up. or others with good exp provide suggestions, solutions.

[GM Canada]

Is this a motor for 12" wheel or a motor of 12" in diameter?

The 12 inch wheel fits a tire that is 12 inches in diameter on the outside of the tire. The rim is much smaller. Just like on a 26 inch wheel the outside diamter of the tire is 26 inches and the 26 inch rim is much smaller. To order a wheel that fits your 12 inch outside diameter tire you order a 12 inch rim. Even though realistically its much smaller.

Over seas a lot of the world uses ETRT standards where a 12 inch tire would be 12 inches in diameter on the inside of the tire. The 12 inch rim would actually be 12 inches in diameter. And the tire much bigger on the outside dimention.

Gary

[Just]

What's a top speed of such 12" motor wheel with 24V battery? 48V battery? What's torque?

What's current consumption (continuous and peaks)?

Thank you!

[Just]

could you publish a link to the motor?

[Garm@n]

i guess my last few post were deleted.  I'm not sure how this helps my cause looking for solutions.  So I will describe in words rather then posting links from other websites.  so it doesnt get flagged as spam.
Since the 12" motor here has 2 problems 1. under powered 2 wheel size is not compliant to ontario ebike laws.  I found a possible solution.  another site carries a 14" wheel/hub kit but carries a external controller BUT pushes a 1000w.  Some issues I do see is whether the wheel fits my bike and rpms is a about 150 more than the Smart Pie.  The cost for the leaf motor kit is steep about 500$ including shipping, but I did not factor in duty, probably making this kit un-affordable. The question I was waiting for was....
are they under-rating motor or over stating the wattage, it seems to me a 1000w should exceed the Smart Pie specs in this case?

[GM Canada]

Not sure why any posts may have been deleted. I know I didn't do it and Alan is against censorship. So I Imagine "Big brother" GM China is watching and maybe they didn't like them. The motor you had shown before it was deleted looked like a 901 in a 14 inch rim. That would be 50o watts at 36 volts and 1000 watts at 48 volts.

I think you need to decide about street legal issues. In one sentence a 12 inch wheel is to small for street legal and in the next you are looking for 1000 watts. I know you are trying to figure out how fast the 12 inch wheel will go. In one post you state you found the chart I was referring to. I have no idea about any chart. You must be confusing me with another person.

I can present some logic about speed. I have a fair amount of experience with 26 inch 901 and 26 inch MP3. Flat out with 48 volts the 901 would do 48 kph in a 26 inch rim (50 in a 700c rim). Flat out with 48 volts an MP3 does 46kph. Both of them at 48 volts are considered 1000 watt motors. Of course these are not speeds you would do to be street legal this is just for comparison. The speeds are pretty close. At 36 volts they do 33kph and 32 kph respectively. Still very close. But now they would be considered 500 watt motors.

I have no experience with Smart Pies other then spinning them up for a test but people are saying the top speed of the Smart Pie is similar to the MP3. So at 48 volts a Smart Pie would be considered 400watts and will do 46kph and at 36 volts it would be 250 watts and do 32 kph in a 26 inch rim.

If anything I am saying so far makes sense the 48 volt 400 watt Smart Pie would be faster than the 901 at 36 volts 500 watts no matter what the wheel size. So if you are trying to stay street legal wattage wise the Smart Pie would be faster and in a smaller rim more suitable for your needs.

Also people are finding more torque then they expected on a 26 inch rim so in a smaller rim it would have even more torque.

That leads us of course to the wheel size issue again. If you are wanting street legal all the way then I think you need a different bike. I doubt a 14 inch rim will fit on your bike but of course I have never seen it or any pictures of it.

But one more thought is I have two folding Ebikes with 8 inch wheels. No one has ever taken a look at them other then to state how cool they look. I doubt they would ever present an issue, but with current laws I guess they are not street legal. That was my biggest complaint when I sent my submission in to the provincial study. What difference should wheel size make? Talk about a stupid rule just for the sake of making a rule.

Gary

[Garm@n]

thanks for response and for the explanation about my posts.  So you are right about 14" hubs,  I'll put that idea to rest.  So once again compromising is rearing its ugly head and will probably move to 16" wheel. Though14" is away to go.  It would easier to fold smaller take the bus if failure or down pour occurs.  Anyway I will head to a shop that sells folding bikes and take measurements. 
Now this opens up a new avenue for me with the MP3.  I'm curious if most just buy the kit or do others buy the monitor system attached to the bike.  I also would like to know if rear hub better choice over the front hub. 
BTW I'm guessing the rear hub is only free wheel.  So no coaster brakes available?

I'm not sure why 350mm was the magic number by the government,  I'm only speculating the government is trying to weed out the pocket bike riders.  My fear if I am not fully compliant and since Toronto is one of the top 3 cities in traffic enforcement in Canada.  I'd rather not receive moving violation or driving without insurance and license once the police notice the non compliant tires.
 
As for speed,  I get them by reading charts provided from the manufacturer.  Just take the rpm's convert the diameter of the tire to it's circumference multiply by the time and convert the total inches to miles and voila!  mph... I think thats correct. 

[GM Canada]

I don't carry ready built Ebikes. The main reason is the cost of shipping from china to Canada makes it unrealistic and overpriced. Another is of the 4 I did import I kept them all for myself. There was never any interest for a pre-built bike. There are so many inexpensive bikes already here and kits like he MP3 are extremely easy to install. If you know anything about the battle for Ebikes going on in Toronto right now buying anything that resembles a scooter coud end up getting you off the road altogether. I recently converted my regular ride to having a pedelec. That way when I am in Toronto I can ride the bike lanes without issue. In Mississauga Ebikes can ride in the bike lanes and if they are under 88 pounds they can ride n the bike paths as well. So keeping it light would most likely be in your best interest, at least until the battle is over and the dust settles. Who knows where the lines will be drawn. The bicycle union is trying to eliminate the scooter style Ebikes all together from the definition of Bicycle.

A rear hub is always the best choice. Its best to have the power where the traction is. But some bikes have coaster brakes and no way to convert to regular brakes. Some people try to do the front to a balance the weight but end up just spinning out the front wheel on take off. Other people think messing with the gears is difficult or they want to keep there 8 or 9 speed freewheel. The reality is ones you have a motor the numbers of gears means very little.

Gary