Smart Pie problem

[dBlues]

Hello,

I browsed the forum but couldn't find an answer yet.

I recently washed my bike with new Smart Pie on it. Before it had been working flawlessly, it's really amazing.
But then after I put the power back on, it wouldn't move - all the battery indicator lights are showing, and when I twist the throttle, the motor only occasionally makes a 'click' sound as if releasing regen brake.
When I rotate the rear wheel with throttle on, either direction, it goes 'click - click - click -...'

I did the following tests:
- take off all the regen brake cabling and left hand buttons, leaving only throttle: "click-click-click"
- use either of the regen brakes: no sound when rotating, no brake activated
- wheel spins freely when power on and not twisting throttle
- light button has no effect (the wire end has been taped)
- it's pedelec version but pedelec sensor is NOT ever been installed yet
- I took off all the cabling and used hair dryer to dry them, no effect
- the pin connect -test did nothing at all (power on, connect pins in 12 o'clock and next to the right, arrow-sign in the bottom)

Seems like some of the windings are not activated or they have become faulty. Is there anything I can do? Wait a couple of days to see if it has dried?

-Mikko

[Bikemad]

Hi Mikko, it sounds like you're not having a lot of success with your motor at the moment.

Without knowing what the water may have actually affected, or where it may have found its way in, it's difficult to say whether it will dry out easily or not.

Is the big cable coming from the controller situated above or below the axle?

Did you use a bucket and sponge, a hose pie, or a jet-wash to wash your bike?

If the water has managed to find its way into the motor itself, it could simply be causing temporary problems with the Hall Sensors.
But if it's found its way into the controller housing and onto the circuit board, it could possibly cause permanent damage to one or more of the components if it has conducted the high battery voltage onto delicate low voltage circuits.

It is definitely worth placing it somewhere warm to see if it will make a full recovery, but you may have to wait several days to see if this works.



Alan
 

[dBlues]

What a relief!!! It worked first time this evening when I got back from work.       
In the morning the symptoms were still the same.
It seems to be ok now (knock knock).

About the washing equipment; I used a small manually pressurized bucket /spray, filled with water only. Plus a brush.

The cable is actually situated almost straight above. This might be a problem?

Hm, I'm still a bit hesitant to drive now. I'll probably wait a couple of days for it to dry.

How well do the plastics tolerate generic grease/vaseline/paste? I was thinking at least using the electrical connector paste.
I guess I should think about potting the lever and the left hand buttons casings.

Connectors are ok quality I guess, but nothing's perfect anyway.

I suppose I'll turn the axle upside down so the cable won't lead the water in.

Thanks!

[Bikemad]

The cable is actually situated almost straight above. This might be a problem?
I suppose I'll turn the axle upside down so the cable won't lead the water in.

Good to hear it's working again Mikko.

Don't change the position of the cable because it should be better that way around. Although the cable runs down towards the axle, it actually curls back up inside the recessed potion of the axle and goes upwards into the controller, so the water is less like to get in through the cable opening with it fitted this way around.
If the cable was fitted below the axle, any water on the axle could simply follow the retaining circlip onto the cable and into the controller (assuming the cable is not sealed properly where it enters the controller's heat sink cover).

I have not dismantled the Smart Pie yet, but perhaps I will pull it apart sometime to see exactly how it's sealed to prevent water ingress.

Alan
 

[dBlues]

Thanks again for the reply, Bikemad!

I should have knocked harder. Ok, it sort of works, right after I switch off the power from the battery, it runs for a few seconds /minute, then the sound of the motor changes, it might be on/off for some tmes and eventually stops after 2-3 seconds.
Edit: just came back, now it worked on and off. I got maybe 100-500m just twisting throttle, then off again. Pedaled with regen brake on, until after a minute regen brake activates and I can drive by dc again. Then the same thing over and over.
Outside is 5 degrees, and the motor runs below skin temperature.

I suspect it might be a cable or connector fault, might be a short circuit.
Or the lever. It could be anything really.
There are all sorts of loose cable ends in the system now too, one for the speedometer (coming from motor), one for the lights that you cannot detach that gives full 56V. Seems they don't have effect this time, I removed all the electric tape from the non-connected connectors.

Controller seems ok, responds to usb and behaves logically.

Is the Smart Pie power test the same as with mp3? For me it didn't seem to work.

I'll check the cabling and get back...

I took a good look today on the power cable, it seems very well sealed with epoxy maybe.

[dBlues]

After depressive phase, turning back to manic.
Seems that my current limits were too low, there is some sampling mechanism in the controller probably that checks every now and then, if the current has been too high for some time.
Then it just turns the wheel off.

I had 15A nominal max and 40A peak and 48V.
Now I have set 25A as nominal max and 70A as peak as in factory settings.

It helped but I'm not sure why. My settings were ok until now.
One thing could be that LiFePO4 battery is starting to give out it's full potential after couple of chargings, and currents just went overboard.

For 400W, there shouldn't be such high current though. But peaks were ~650W... Maybe 15A was just too little. if the voltages temporarily decrease, the motor draws more.
Still sounds funny.

Let's still take a brake and see how things go.

[Bikemad]

I had 15A nominal max and 40A peak and 48V.
Now I have set 25A as nominal max and 70A as peak as in factory settings.

Try setting it back to the default parameters, my Smart Pie came factory set as follows:



I'm wondering whether the controller might be cutting out a bit too soon on the 48V setting, in which case it might be worth resetting the Motor Voltage setting to 24V to ensure that the controller's Low Voltage Cut-off will not activate before the battery's.
 
I have my controllers set to 24V on all three of my Magic Pies and also on the new Smart Pie, and I regularly use different voltage batteries (25.9V, 29.6V and 51.8V LiPo packs) without any problems.

Alan
 

[dBlues]

Wheel rolled very well on my test bench, no cuts. But in the bike it now cuts noticeably quicker. So it's probably getting too much already. The leds in the handle burn much brighter also

Thanks for the tip. That actually was the setting with delivery (24V). I changed it to 48V.

[dBlues]

With 24V setting (and others as above), the problem persists. The motor runs smooth now for 2-5 s after startup. If I power off/power on, nothing.
If I leave power off for 5-10min, then again 2-5s it works.
I'll have to open up the controller I guess...

[GM Canada]

Is it a GM battery? Could it be a bad key switch?

Gary

[dBlues]

It is Golden Motor battery. The leds are burning the whole time in the throttle, plus there is a sound from the motor (if you roll the wheel manually and trigger throttle) when the fault appears after start.
It's like the motor is trying to trigger the coils, or part of the strength.
The wheel doesn't move even in the test bench now.
Controller seems to behave logically for the few seconds it works.

I could try to open the controller box, and measure the voltages, but I'd like to hear if you have any other suggestions.

Edit: just opened the battery to check the key switch, it looked ok. 53,3V on key side, 53,4V on charger side (battery not full).
Any test I can do? Hook the battery from charger side? Maybe just bypass the keyswitch and solder the connector to the output.

Edit: I brought the whole system indoors for two hours, at first it was malfunctioning like normally, then used hairdryer to blow hot air into the keyhole. Now I can't get this fault to manifest itself anymore again. On the other hand, this happened yesterday too and now there is hardly any load on the motor either. Voltages are quite steady around 52,8 and 53,3V when it runs. No sudden drops, but then again no fault.
This happened yesterday as I took it inside. It's now 5C outside.
I'll take it for a spin now, let's see if something happens... putting some tape on the keyhole to prevent any drops from the road.

[dBlues]

 
 
   

Thank you guys!!!  I just went around the block without any problems. Unbelievable.

It seems there was just some water / vapor in the keyhole?!

Edit: Smart pie seems to be quite well sealed, but perhaps because of my experiment with current settings, the cable seal had vaporized almost completely.
I added some hot glue around the entry hole to keep it better protected.

Maybe the battery lock needs some more protection. I tried to not spray water in it, but apparently something went in. Kinda stupid to keep it there in the first place while washing, but I figured it should be protected from drops of water. Well, turns out it wasn't.

[GM Canada]

The only time I have ever had a problem in the rain was the way my bike was parked. It was at an angle which allowed water to enter the front plug. I sat the battery on a floor vent for a few days and it worked fine after that. Since then I use a bike cover to keep the rain and dust off of it. It looks kinda dorky but does a great job.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/5/SportsRec/BikesAccessories/BicycleAccessories/PRD~0733609P/CCM+Bike+Cover.jsp?locale=en

Gary

[Cornelius]

You could make a cover for the battery like I did;
http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2320.msg13469#msg13469

After the pic was taken, I mounted an 10mm eyelet just where the key enters, so I don't have to take off the cover to insert the key...

[dBlues]

Nice battery cover! Too bad I really can't sew. Send me a black one and I'll give you ... how much do you ask for a black cover? Plus postage to finland.


I think the problem was actually the other end of the battery. I just opened it and dried it, a bit of water had gone in. The battery is tilted a bit lower towards rear on my ride, seems water always slides down there.
Also the light wiring caused problems today. Eventually I solved them by taping them individually and aligning them so they dry up.

I was putting hot glue to the battery seam (leaving bottom unglued), but then I ran out of glue  .
I used electrical tape instead to squeeze between plastic and aluminium, left the bottom 'open'. So far so good, everything works now.

I washed my bike again today with a plastic bag to cover the handle. No problems, smooth running!