Parts or dimension needed

[Leslie]

The link between Island Earth and GM has been disproven.  Brett told me in a rather long Email just then. The length of the email was in regards to other matters.

Its all good, and my dealer at Ev Power Australia seems to be certain that GM are not going downhill but improving and there is plenty of good stock out to be had...

I just don't get it

[Leslie]

Update:

I found this yesterday.

http://cngoldenmotor.en.alibaba.com/trustpass_profile.htm

And I found this today.

http://goldenmotor.en.alibaba.com/aboutus.htmll

Edit: And this!

http://goldenmotor.en.alibaba.com/trustpass_profile.html

Just add a cn to the front of the name and

So what do you think guys?

I have my friend in China looking both of these groups up to see who is the good guys or even if they are related at all...

If there is any funny business someone will be getting a visit from the authorities....

[Leslie]

Ningbo Golden Motor Industry Group Co., Ltd. Sell these swell looking bikes but if you look around a bit you can see they make a hell of a lot more.

The battery looks like the ones that Kazebluesky bought Am I correct.



My Friend from China will get to the bottom of this regardless of what country the frausters are at..

[philf]

I dunno if any of you frequent the forums at endless-sphere.com, but I've been an active link in the cross-country trek of one Justin Lemire-Elmore.

For those who aren't aware of the thread (and it's worth going over there to read), Justin departed Vancouver BC on an e-bike on August 2nd, and is currently only a few days away from completing his journey in Halifax, NS.

Justin has forgotten more than most of us will ever know about the theory and construction of BLDC hub motors, and has made his entire journey with a controller of his own design.  When he was doing his test runs (on Vancouver Island) of his rig, he had chosen the Golden Motor BLDC as his first pick for the job of getting him across the country.

Why?

Because it actually has the best efficiency and least cogging torque of any of the motors he has tested.  Unfortunately, it's poor at dissipating heat - he managed to kill a GM motor on a steady incline (over 1km) pulling his rig (which, with him on it, weighs nearly 300lbs).  He went for a Crystalyte 5304 for the real deal, but still likes the GM motors... WITH caution...

Justin runs www.ebikes.ca, and has had his mitts on many motors.  While he was stopped over here (in Ontario!) we spoke about the fact that he's dropped GM products from his site...  His reasons had less to do with the fact that the were a bad product (after all, he himself was going to use one to cross the country) as much as he'd come to the conclusion that they were NOT made in one factory.

That's the thing that made me sit up and take notice, and which is relevant to this thread.

He's selling Crystalyte - whose motors have as many idiocynrasies as GM, and which are almost entirely hand-made.  However, they're CONSISTENT.  He was telling me that he's opened enough Golden Motor product to be absolutely convinced that the innards come from different factories/suppliers.  The differences he's seen are radical, and is why he dropped them.

The motors I have are brilliant, and I maintain they are a great value.  Unfortunately, all of the recommendations I have made to others to buy GM are now tainted with the knowledge that their mileage may certainly vary.

I'm still happy with what I got for the dollars paid, and that's what counts.  I'm considering ordering further units, as well.

Yup - communications with China suck.  But you eventually DO get the product.

[biohazardman]

I have been watching Justin's adventure since early on.  I think it's great that he has been keeping those on the ES forum informed as to his whereabouts as well as his encounters with people and problems with equipment including the rear wheel.  Even with all that he has had to go through to get to where he is now, which is allot, he has kept up the communication.  Quite the ride he is on. 
Speaking of heat and the GM motor I rode mine into town the other day and was doing some very slow block to block riding dodging the pedestrians and traffic the best I could with all of the construction going on..  I checked the motor often and when it began to get warmer than I though it should be I stopped and let it cool down.  If it had not been for Justin's information probly would have cooked the motor.  They get warm fast when you go slow.

[Chris Angel]

While am I most interested in Justin etc I would be most appreciative if this thread focused first on the part I require. Thanks to some excellent ideas from various posts regarding bearing size to establish bushing I.D. and the cover hole to determine O.D. In the absence of a measured actual part I may be able to then estimate the length based on the depth to the bearing and the protrusion length of the bushing on the opposite side. Thanks to forum people - no thanks to Golden for much unecessary time spent gathering information they should have been providing for years.

My take on Phil is he has no "factory" and never did. I have never been to China but my guess is there is a lot of what would here be described as garage industries where a few people pool their resources and purchase a lathe, milling machine and other basic metal working equipment and voila we have a mini "factory" Like many less developed countries China is probably teeming with these and it is how and where Phil gets his stock. He probably has a dozen suppliers he deals with and has the lowest bidder crank out a lot size based on best guess growth. Same thing with the lithium ion batteries and that is were he is really running into problems. High defect rates and refunds forced through credit card companies have put him in a cash flow problem and now he is trying to use money from new orders to secure product resulting in disturbing delays and stall tactics. This has every possibility of wiping him out and cannot continue for long. He has few if any employees hence the non existent customer support and he will not commit him self to documentation due to the fact he buys from a number of sources and short sightedly thinks he can continue juggling suppliers and avoiding quality, parts and documentation issues for the forseeable future.

[biohazardman]

Well we are all entitled to our own opinions Chris so yours is noted.  I do not wish to offend but the bushing missing or arriving the wrong size has been a well known fact for some years now.  The install instructions tell one how to easily remedy this if one reads them.  Figuring the size out should not be a problem at all either as once again how to do so is explained in the install guide which is available on line and linked to The GM site. The motor obviously needs to have the bushing installed to hold the bearing in place this is  likely easy for someone with the needed mechanical abilities, which not all of us have,  to install the kit to figure out.  If one does not posses these abilities simply reading the instructions can help most of us figure it out.
As far as Phillip and GM goes from all that I/we have managed to scrape together he has a real job at GM so not allot of time for us. GM has a fairly good sized factory in China and we are but a half drop of water in their large production bucket. I have seen pictures and video of the inside of some of the manufacturing plants in China.  It was obvious that they were using 1950s American machinery on the assembly line which consisted of long lines of machine operators churning out parts from an old worn out lathes one at a time by hand.  Not exactly what we would call precision.  Still I also know people here in the states that order paintball gun parts from an individual in China who has managed to get hold of a CNC machine and does excellent work so good things can happen.
GM has been around for some time now and will be around for some time to come trying to improve and expand their products all the while.
Most communication with China is atrocious to say the least but from what I have seen it is improving.

[Chris Angel]

"I do not wish to offend but the bushing missing or arriving the wrong size has been a well known fact for some years now.  The install instructions tell one how to easily remedy this if one reads them."

Really, if this was the case why did you not say so when you first posted? The 3rd party instructions posted make no mention of missing bushings. It talks about creating special washers if the drop outs do not permit tightening down axle nuts any other way. I am not a novice at this and have not encountered this before on any of 4 prior motor kits from Golden and never from their competitors. If it has been a problem for years then why has it not been corrected?

Please don't worry about offending me if I am right about Phil and his Golden empire, we will all be buying product from someone else soon anyway.
That  drop in the bucket analogy has been used many times and certainly represents the Chinese hub motor market generally but as I have found no evidence of Golden supplying to the Chinese market I think Phil needs to get his act together or he won't have a market at all.

Time will tell Biohazardman if you are in Ontario (Canada) I would bet you a pint Phil is just selling outside China, is pretty much a one man band and will be MIA within say 6 no make it 7 months for reasons stated in this and my last post.

[biohazardman]

Yup time usually sets things straight. We will see. I am now looking at two broken controllers, I should be riding my bike instead,  hope I can fix one although it does not look good as I have a beeping noise coming from my meter when checking both directions on several of the fets. Not a good thing when they are shorted like that.  ;^(  The nice weather is near over and don't want to miss the last of it so guess I should finish the other bike.

[Leslie]

Thanks to some excellent ideas from various posts regarding bearing size to establish bushing I.D. and the cover hole to determine O.D. In the absence of a measured actual part I may be able to then estimate the length based on the depth to the bearing and the protrusion length of the bushing on the opposite side.

Man Im sorry I have a hub I could pull apart and measure at the bike shop getting a 700cc rim, not that I need the bike mechanic to do this but we and the bike shop guy are developing a help me, help you relationsh!t/p, not sure if he's going to put up with me for to long as (AS) I am a little intense .  I will do it but I have a large family to attend to.  Yes I have tripplets and I didnt tell these forums about the other 5 kids too.  Yes I am raising 8 children .

WOW Justin im going to head over to ES as I have seen some good stuff going down there.

[Chris Angel]

Thanks for your help, I noticed the three little darlings in the picture and thought "there is a far braver man than I". But eight!!!!!!!!!!!! My oh my oh my you have been busy! I will certainly be patient as I wonder how you even find the time to think about e bikes let alone build them. Thanks again so much for your assistance and I look forward to hearing from you when your time permits.

[Leslie]

Well I have never owned a licence or car and we now live to far from the shops to catch a cab if those kids own the milk just to catch cabs willy nilly.

Nor do I have the energy to pedal 42 litres of milk and I have no idea how much food every week.

These bikes are my dream come true and that much more.  I just took off to the shops just then and my bike is in top shape ATM.  Look with all the whinging about lifpo4's I can tell you that my 18ah SLA's are kicking some major EV booty ATM and im getting some serious speed and distance with these beauties.

Bike 2 is comming along and it wont be too long when all the brats are at schoo and me, the wife with 2 baby trailers with bubs in the back of them will be free from being house bound.

At least one of us has been stuck at home for 2 years now.. 

[Lanchon]

hi Chris, I'm sorry the info you need is trickling so slowly if at all. but I can say your opinion on GM is very sensible and hasn't been tossed around here before. the "orthodox" view simply doesn't match the facts as I see them and so I distrust that view; yours seem more realistic.

> GM has a fairly good sized factory in China and we are but a half drop of water in their large production bucket.

bio-h, these two ideas have been repeated here over and over but I'm yet to see a shred of evidence; please direct me to it if you know where to find it. (not rhetoric, it's an honest request.)

btw bio-h, could you tell me what type are those two controllers that failed on you?

[Leslie]

> GM has a fairly good sized factory in China and we are but a half drop of water in their large production bucket.

bio-h, these two ideas have been repeated here over and over but I'm yet to see a shred of evidence; please direct me to it if you know where to find it. (not rhetoric, it's an honest request.)

Connie from China called them yesterday in native tounge and she told me Philip "who lives in China" explained the difference between the two company names being 1:Ningbo Golden Motor Industry Group Co., Ltd. and the other just goldenmotor pty ltd... Not anything new to me really.

I will ask her once again to go out of her way to actually find out if there is indeed any factory.

Ill keep in touch

Peace out..

[Chris Angel]

Regarding the Golden Motor factory, I have seen many web sites for Chinese companies selling direct that claim to have a factory and they usually have a few photos to back up this claim and often have images purporting to be various business and quality "certificates".

Four low resolution photos one of which shows fewer than 200 hub motors is hardly evidence of the existence of a dedicated factory. Golden Motor Technology Co Ltd trust pass profile gives their address as #608 Suncity Business Center,367 Tong Jiang Zhong Road. When looking at the photos what I see is a large, probably shared business park unit. The only evidence of occupation are the photo with the sign and the photo with the hub motors.

Their current company description does not say they operate a manufacturing facility, it only implies it when stating  "With our talented mechanics engineers, power wheelchair experts, DC motor and electronics controller designers, experienced assembly workforce-----" Who is "our" China Changzhou or Golden?

I always thought this was a very small outfit but that it could grow in to what it implied it was. After four years of the same unresolved problems and with new issues like cashing payment without stock and stalling orders I no longer believe that is possible.

Lastly that "drop in the bucket" excuse has had its day. In the case of Golden, their own description states "Our products are well accepted in China, North American and European markets. Over 80% of our products are exported to international markets." So for the vast majority, 80% of your business, you ignore emails, parts requests and documentation? Give that drop in the bucket thing a rest it is just a convenient rationalization for a total absence of customer service and no quality control. It is true of the Chinese hub market in general only. Please no one look behind the curtain at the mighty OZ I mean Phil.