problem with electric bike, need help please!

[Alan1976uk]

Hi, recently my electric bike has encountered problems possibly due to accidentally being left in heavy rain overnight.

Basically one day it was fine, a few days later it’s making a very horrible noise when running (from motor/hub).

It used to make a very low whistling sound when running, but now it’s making a loud humming noise similar to the sound a tire makes when rubbing against something and also has noticeable vibration.

The motor I believe is a hall sensor peerless hub motor 36v, controller model is a WZK-70 5AS.

Other observation is the fact that the throttle does not seem to work anymore, the bike has 2 modes throttle(not working) and automatic assist (working with noise).

What I’ve tested so far:-

Hall-pass throttle control seems to be working fine, 5v constant power (between red-black wires) and 0.9v - 4.2v power on the throttle (between black-blue wire) variable depending on how much I turn the throttle. So that seems to be fine.

As for the connections to the motor (hub) they are broken down into

1, 3-pin connector yellow/green/blue (thick wire) probably 3-phase power.

I've tested each of these individually between neutral from battery whilst the wheel is turning (peddling on assisted mode) and the voltage is between 1-4v depending on how fast I peddle and then spikes to around 15v once the motor kicks in.

2, 5-pin connector red/black yellow/green/blue (thin wires)

Red/black has a constant 4.2v

Between the black (neutral) and each colour yellow/green/blue the voltage is either 0v or 5v depending on the wheels location. This seems to alternate between yellow 0v green 5v blue 5v (or yellow 5v green 5v blue 0v) so at any one time 2 of the 3 wires have 5v. That seems to me that the sensors are at least working,

but I have no knowledge of how the motor/hall-sensors are supposed to work and in what sequence, so hopefully this makes sense to someone that has experience with electric bikes and can assist me further.

I've also posted a video so you can hear what it sounds like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mnkd5H0ILg

Many thanks in advance Alan.

[Cornelius]

Tricky...
Regarding the throttle; have you checked and cleaned all the connections?

And the sound... Could it be a blown FET in the controller? (or moisture? have you checked if the controller are dry inside?)

We here are mostly into GM's equipment, and aren't so familiar with other brands, but the workings are often the same...

[Alan1976uk]

I will take the controller apart in just a minute and check if its wet inside.

I have another question, or even answering my own question lol. Going back to the yellow 5v green 5v blue 0v or yellow 0v green 5v blue 5v. The green always stays 5v constant, could this be the problem, is this a faulty hall sensor that is constanly ON??

[Cornelius]

If the power measured between ground(black) and green are constantly at 5V when turning the wheel, it would seem likely that the hall sensor are faulty. Ofcourse, it could also be a droplet of water between the 5V and output leg on the sensor...

[Alan1976uk]

i've finaly managed to get the hub open after many hours tring to get the disc-break screws out so I could get to the hub screws lol.

But once inside the middle one of the 3 sensors looks damaged/melted. cant even make out any writting on the face its so badly warped.

The component number on the others looks like 444e 528 but im only 95% sure of that because the writting is worn in parts, my problem I cant seem to find any info on that number.

Finding somewhere to purchase these maybe hard. Are all hall effect sensors bascally the same and work in most hubs??

Thanks again alan.

[DirtyGinge]

A honeywell ss41 should work nicely for you........usually when I get them though, I change all 3 to make sure there is no difference in timings etc between models of hall sensors........

lyen@hotmail.com should be able to supply them, from USA but shipping is about the same as farnell in the uk, which comes from the EU somewhere...

[Alan1976uk]

A honeywell ss41 should work nicely for you........usually when I get them though, I change all 3 to make sure there is no difference in timings etc between models of hall sensors........

lyen@hotmail.com should be able to supply them, from USA but shipping is about the same as farnell in the uk, which comes from the EU somewhere...

Hi i've been looking at that one a few times, but from what i've read its only got 0.4v output (or am I mistaken) don't pretent to be an expert

It says "Output Saturation Voltage   0.4V(dc)" does this mean that it outputs only 0.4v or loses 0.4v?

I can get them pretty cheap from RS http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/hall-effect-sensors/1811463/

Alternativly the US5881 has a 5v or close to 5v output. ?? http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/hall-effect-sensor/6843522/

Mine are giving 5v output and thats what is throwing me, confused.com

Thanks for all the reply guys

[Bikemad]

It says "Output Saturation Voltage   0.4V(dc)" does this mean that it outputs only 0.4v or loses 0.4v?
Mine are giving 5v output and thats what is throwing me, confused.com

The SS41 sensors are designed to switch an externally applied voltage of between 0.5V to 28V (GM use 5V) to ground via the output when activated, so ideally the voltage on the output should be 0V when switched, but in reality, there will be a minimal voltage loss through the switch (hall sensor), so it will be marginally higher than 0V (typically 0.15V@4-6mA).
The 5V reading is the voltage from the controller being applied to the the output terminal before it is switched. See the pdf attachment below for more details on the SS41 Sensors.
 
Ginge's suggestion of changing all three sensors sounds like good advice to me. The Honeywell sensors are "latching" (they remain switched until an opposite magnetic field turns them off again) so they might operate slightly differently to the existing sensors, using three matching sensors should ensure you end up with a smoother running motor.

I think you'll find that the throttle will start working normally again once the sensors have been replaced.

Alan
 

[Alan1976uk]

I've ordered 3 of the SS41 from RS miller, they should be here Tuesday so all I can do now is wait and hope

Edit : what I have just noticed when removing the 3 sensors ready for replacements, is that the middle one is in fact turned the opposite way from the other 2, and looks to be a different component number.
I purchased this bike second hand and so now i'm wondering if this has been repaired before.

I know this is not a goldenmotor hub so your knowledge is limited but would it usually be normal to have one facing opposite to the rest, I've uploaded a picture I took sorry its a bit blurry



Wondering now if I should place the new ones all the same way, trial and error I guess.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

[Bikemad]

As I had some time to spare earlier today, I decided to play with some hall sensors and post a very short video on YouTube to try and demonstrate the difference in operation between a Honeywell latching sensor (it works like a switch) which is commonly used in hub motors, and a typical linear sensor (like the ones used in a throttle unit which produces a variable output).

The visible dimming effect of the LED just after it is switched on is only the auto exposure adjustment on my camera, the brightness of the LED does not change with the latching sensor, it is either on or off.

Alan
 

[Alan1976uk]

cool video mate, guess you like your electronics . I have an NVQ level 2 in electronics but until now have never come across hall effect sensors. In fact I phoned Maplin Electronics this morning to see if they had the sensors I needed and they didn't even know what I was talking about, the guy that answered the phone didn't know what a hull effect sensor was lol.

[Cornelius]

So Alan; what you're saying is that when ordering an ss41 hall sensor for GM motors, it should be a latching type; not bipolar or unipolar?!

I checked on my motor (901-pro), and it only says "41F"; searching for ss41F gives a bipolar hall sensor. (?!)

[Bikemad]

So Alan; what you're saying is that when ordering an ss41 hall sensor for GM motors, it should be a latching type; not bipolar or unipolar?!

I checked on my motor (901-pro), and it only says "41F"; searching for ss41F gives a bipolar hall sensor. (?!)

Cornelius, the pdf document attached to one of my previous posts described the SS41 Series as Low Gauss Bipolar Hall Effect Position Sensors, so I guess bipolar ones are also latching.

The Honeywell sensor tested as latching  in my video is marked S41, the first "S4" part indicates the package type and the "1" means it's Bipolar ("4" = Unipolar, "6" = Latching and "9" = Linear).

The Honeywell SS41F that I looked up was described as a "Bipolar Latch" type, so I'm not sure how to differentiate between Bipolar and Latched.

Hope this helps.

Alan
 

[Cornelius]

Ah, this lead me to do some research, and the result are that we're getting wiser...

The type of 'polar' refers to how the sensor reacts to the polarity of the magnets.

Unipolar = the hall sensor turns on when subjected to a positive magnetic field, and turns off when that field are removed.

Omnipolar are similar to Unipolar, but takes either positive or negative field to turn on the sensor.

Bipolar = the hall sensor turns on when subjected to a positive magnetic field, and turns off when subjected to a negative magnetic field. When the magnetic field are removed, it turns off.

Latching hall sensors are similar to Bipolar, but they stays on or stays off when the magnetic field are removed.

Linear hall sensors creates a varable output based on the proximity of the magnetic field.

Now'we're wiser...

(Sorry Alan1976uk; didn't mean to hijack your thread, but it was related though... )

I think it's usual to have all three sensors facing the printed side out towards the magnets. The placement of your sensors looks very much alike to GM's motors.
Edit:
Remember where each sensor was placed; if they swap places, you'll have to swap sensor wires on the controller also, and that only confuses...

[MonkeyMagic]

I seriously dred the day I have to replace hall sensors! lol