Making my first E-bike

[emeni09]

Hi Everybody.

My first time here (actually I've read a lot since it took a while for the confirmation mail to arrive).
I've decided to make my current bike into an E-bike.
I love biking and I'm used to do it every day, but I have a huge problem, on my way to school/work, I have a huge hill (over 10% inclination and at least 500m long) which kills me. I either have to get down from my bicycle and walk it, or pedal on it and sweat a lot or get extremely tired. I would rather do another 5km that to ride up that hill. Combined with other 2 smaller hills, it's not the most pleasant thing...
So I've decided to make my bike electric.
I know about EU regulation regarding e-bikes speed, but I don't really care about them, since in my country (although it's in EU, no-body is forcing it). in the end, how can you force me to go maximum 25km/h on an electric bike, when my average speed is around 33+km/h and on flat I ride at 45+km/h.
So I want to buy an electric kit.

My bike is a Trek 4500 with front suspension, 9gears on the back wheel, and disk breaks. It's a very sweet very light bike, although lite.
I would like a rear hub wheel, since I need the front one light (in order to go over obstacles and stuff). With 26inch rims.
These being said, can you recommend me a kit to buy?
I would like something with external controller since I would like to modify it afterwords and add other goodies to my bike (like a cruise control which is adjusted based on speed and not on throttle position and regenerative braking for when I go down hills). I have big plans for it, but at the beginning I'm planning to use an already made controller, and only afterwords making a custom one, because I want to use this bike, and I don't have a lot of time right now or a second bicycle which I like to ride .

I would like something as cheap as possible, because I'm a student who tries to self support himself, and money are coming as they used to...
I would like it to be able to go at least 35-40km/h (21-25mph) with a range of 20-25km(12 -15miles).

I would like to be able to use my brakes, since my bike won't support V-brakes (doesn't have the place on the frame for them, and from previous experiences I tend to abuse them, and V-brakes get worn out pretty fast) and my gears since I wouldn't like to change my gears shifters.

Do you have any advices about what to buy? It would also be nice if you could tell me a reseller in Europe which is cheaper, since I wouldn't like to pay custom taxes, one in Denmark would be perfect since I live here, but I bet he will be 10 times more expensive that in any other part.

P.S. How water prof are the kits, because it rays a lot and even if my the battery will stay inside when I'm not riding, the bike will still stay outside in the rain...

Thanks.

[krelle52]

Hej

Jeg havde lidt på fornemmelsen at du var dansk. Hvor er det, I har så store bakker. I Jylland? 

Jeg er også igang med en ombygning til Elcykel. Jeg har snakket en del med en hollænder ved navn Dennis hos http://www.devi-motion.com. De har et rigtig dejligt sæt (Synes jeg) med en motor der er næsten identisk med MP2 uden indbygget controller. Det kommer med alt undtagen batteri og kan alt det du ønsker. De får også en hele del vand(regn) I Holland så det er med vandtætte samlinger
 

Jeg har ikke været I stand til at finde noget her I Danmark. Af to grunde: 1. Prisen, dansk moms..Av.... 2. Størrelsen har ikke være over 250 W. Jeg har ikke brug for at motoren køre hurtigere end 25 km/t. Men jeg har til tider en høj vægt da det er en ladcykel. Så derfor havde jeg brug for mere moment end hvad en 250 W motor kan give.

I Holland er moms 19% men til gengæld en lidt højere fragt. Kig lidt på deres side eller skriv til Dennis, så kan han sende dig lidt info om det sæt jeg snakket om.

Danish to English translation. So others can follow along and help too: 

I had somewhat the feeling that you were Danish. Where is it that you have such big hills. In Jutland? : D

I also started a conversion to E bike. I've talked a lot with a Dutchman named Dennis at http://www.devi-motion.com. They have a really nice set (I think) with a motor that is virtually identical to MP2 without integrated controller. It comes with everything except battery and can everything you wanted. They also receive a full share of water (rain) in Holland so it is with watertight joints

I have not been able to find something here in Denmark. For two reasons: 1. Price, Danish VAT .. Ouch .... 2. Size does not exceed 250 W. I do not need the motor to run faster than 25 km/h. But I sometimes have a heavy load as it is a cargo bike. So I needed more torque than a 250 watt motor can provide.

In Holland, the is only 19% in VAT but then a little higher freight. Take a look at their page, or write to Dennis, then he can send you some info on the set I talked about.

/Krelle52 (Fyn)

[emeni09]

Mange tak.

jeg bor I Odense, men jeg er ikke dansk. Jeg bliv I Danmark fra 2007 og jeg er en studerende here. Jeg ikke tale mange dansk, men jeg lære dansk nu so min dansk er ikke den bedste. Jeg bliv in Rasmus Rask kollegiet I Bolbro og fra centrum til rasmus rask jeg har en høj bakke, efter Lidl, men der er også en bro over togskinnerne. Jeg også studere på Syddank Universitet.
Fra Rasmus Rask til universitetet jeg har også 3 eller 4 bakker. Firste under den togskinnerne broen, den anden under den andre togskinnerne broen næste den sygehus og fra sygehusen til Munkerisvej er alle en bakke.
Jeg vil prøve snakke med Dennis. 15 minutter siden har jeg ikke ønsket at købe navet motor fra GM, fordi har jag læst nogle emner om klager mod dem. men Dennis er I EU og, hvis han ikke onnering hans garanti, kan jeg altid indgive en klage mod ham på den europæiske forbruger kontor. (gjorde dette et par gange mod luftfartsselskaber)
Jeg håber, at jeg ikke havde alt mange fejl, men er du velkommen til at rette mig. Jeg læste første gang din danske indlæg (fordi jeg ikke har set oversættelsen) og faktisk forstået mere, at jeg selvom jeg kunne.
Undskyld for ikke lærer dansk fra starten, men jeg har aldrig selv om jeg ville blive så meget I Danmark. Du er nødt til at indrømme, at dansk er temmelig hårdt. Jeg kan skrive bedre, der at at tale. Jeg især hader å æ ø bogstaver.

Danish to English (too keep the danish spirit alive, and to practice it  ) Plus the english one should actually make sense.

Thank you very much.

I live in Odense, but I'm not Danish. I've lived in Denmark since 2007 and I am a student here. I do not speak too much Danish, but I'm learning Danish, so my Danish is not the best. I stay in Rasmus Rask Dormitory in Bolbro and from the center to Rasmus Rask I have a very huge hill,after Lidl, but there is also the bridge over the train tracks. I also study at the University of Southern Denmark.
From Rasmus Rask to the university I also have 3 or 4 hills. First under the train tracks bridge, one under the other train tracks bridge next to the hospital and from hospital to Munkerisvej is all a hill.
I'll try to talk to Dennis. 15 minutes ago, I didn't wanted to buy the hub motor from GM, because I have read some topics about complaints against them. but Dennis is in the EU and if he does not honor his guarantee, I can always file a complaint against him at the European Office of Consumers. (did this a few times against some airline companies)
I hope I didn't had too many mistakes, but feel free to correct me. I first read your Danish post (because I haven't seen the translation) and actually understood more that I though I could.
Sorry for not learning Danish from the beginning, but I never though I would live so much in Denmark. You have to admit that Danish is pretty hard. I can write better than to speak. I especially hate the å æ ø letters.

/Emeni09 (Odense)

[Cornelius]

Vel, kan du Dansk, så skjønner du sikkert og Norsk...

But keeping this thread in English would ensure most answers...
I'm a bit unsure if you can get all 9 gears to fit between the rear fork with a motor; GM says max 6, but many here have managed 7... The brakes are no problem, since both front and rear GM motors support disk brakes.

Regarding rain and waterproofing; the motors are well enough protected for rain, but the controller needs water protection. The batteries can handle a light rain, but water will seep into them without protection when the rain are heavy; a nice cover will do.

Where to buy?
GM have a list of distributors at their homepage, but as mentioned here; price will be higher buing in Denmark than when ordering directly from GM. On the other hand, one could pester the local guy much easier if something goes wrong...

[emeni09]

I will probably try with the Dennis, but at the same time I'll also have a look at the competition, too see the best alternative, since in the end, I'm spending a lot of money.... more than my bikes initial price...
I think I'll go for the from mounted one since I want all my gears, but it wouldn't of been nice a back one since I have to recenter my back wheel after all the abuse it has taken, especially since I've broke 3 spokes in the past few months, which are still broken (I know I should fix them, but I don't have the time, and I'm not going to pay for something that simple).

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi emeni09,

Welcome to the GM forum!  

If I were you I would seriously consider GM's geared 250 watt motor As far as I'm aware it is a geared hub.


If you like cycling at all then you simply must have a geared motor because they will allow you to freewheel and they have better torque because of the gears too!

The motor drag with direct drives motors will really give you a pain trying to pedal and will ruin your love of cycling!

I have no idea though how good it will be on hills, but you will have to pedal along I'm sure and put in a lot off effort, it should however ease the burden of that hill.

It's light and that should make a big difference.

get a battery that is just big enough for your needs, if you only want it for assistance than get a battery that is most suitable for your distance. If you get one that is too big for your needs then you are carrying around unneeded extra weight!

One thing is for sure, once you turn the throttle for the first time, you will be hooked on E-Bikes forever and when you can afford it, you can always build a much more powerful bike in the future, but high power setups are very expensive!

The Magic Pie motor with external controller like a 40 amp infineon controller is a very powerful motor and will climb any hill, however it's an expensive option and you will need an expensive battery capable of powering it and to pedal with the pie will kill you!

Mark

[DirtyGinge]

Hi

If you have large hills, then back would be better as front will put much force on the forks.....

I am in UK, and personally, I order all from www.goldenmotor.ca, as he have very good warranty support..

There are quite a few EU sites that will give you ebike motors, such as crystalite EU

http://www.crystalyte-europe.com/home.php

free trade zone, so no import charges ?

infineon controllers, very very good controllers, mine come from lyen@hotmail.com....many many size / options

Gears ?, with the right motor, you wont need more than 6 gears

Ive done nearly 3000 miles through winter in my pie......still going

[emeni09]

Many thanks to everybody for the answer.

The part is that sometimes I love to bike, and sometimes I hate to bike, it depends on a lot of things...
As krelle can tell you Denmark isn't always the nicest place to bike (or scandinavia) but on the other hand I have no alternative, since I'm a student, and the danish state likes taxes a lot, and cars are extremely expensive and public transport sucks (it takes me by bike around 15 minutes to ride the bike to school and 45 minutes to get there by bus).

I would like to use it sometimes only on electric. I'm also a massive guy. 1.9m and around 90kg + 5-10kG (books, laptop, etc) so I'm pretty sure a 250W motor won't be able to handle me.
And E-bike kits are pretty expensive, and paying an extra 200-300euros for a full electric bike would justify it, instead of buying one which can only assist me and upgrading it later (which means even more money).

[emeni09]

should I be able to use the geared 250w motor on the front fork? or do I still risk breaking my fork over time?

[o00scorpion00o]

should I be able to use the geared 250w motor on the front fork? or do I still risk breaking my fork over time?

The 250 watt geared motor should be ok on the front forks, I think you should still use a torque arm on the 250 watt?

There are higher power geared motors, which would be fine if you want to pedal, however the important thing to think about again is the fact it's very hard to pedal with the pie motor!

The pie with internal controller should be able to handle decent hills, but at slower speeds and you will still have to pedal along to keep the speed up, however If you really want the Pie it is a superb motor, but I would get the external controller option, and as dirtyGinge said the infineons are fantastic controllers, and lyen has a fantastic reputation.

The infineons are programmable but are harder to program than gm's magic controller, so you could adjust the current to your batteries specification so as not to hammer it too much, and you can always get a better battery in the future and you can do your research on LiPo in the mean time!  I ran mine with a 40 amp infineon and a 20 amp ping as gm's batteries won't supply that kind of current! Going the Magic Pie I think will be expensive, if you want a high power setup! One thing though the Magic Pie motor @ 48 volts will only do around 25 mph on level ground max, fast enough though really on a bicycle!

[krelle52]

Good luck with it

I live in Odense too. and yes .. Bolbro hill (Bolbro Bakke) is a killer 

[emeni09]

so you see where I'm going... I hate that hill, every single centimeter of it, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. ) it ruins my day just thinking about riding it.
Krelle, what setup do you have and on what bike? Did you payed customs and Moms on it? and because I think the last one was a stupid question, how much did you pay on customs for your setup?

I really what an E-bike or any other cheap way of transportation, since my car broke and I've payed payed a ton of money (4000kr) to the car shops just to tell me the car is perfect, and now my car is sitting in front of my home, and I can't use it since it barely starts, but no one knows what it has. I want to go electric, and especially bikes. I can fix anything on a bike, and I'm a trained electrical power engineer (although I'm specialized in power systems and not power electronics).

[DirtyGinge]

for good cycling, you need a good geared motor ( not gm)

for good hills ,,,pie plus external infineon is great......

[emeni09]

can you recommend a cheap gear motor which I can buy in Europe? Because I think I can live with an assisted e-bike.

[GM Canada]

can you recommend a cheap gear motor which I can buy in Europe? Because I think I can live with an assisted e-bike.

If you are dealing with a huge hll climb you better pedel hard along with the motor. One geared mini motor most likely will fail as the internal gears are plastic and a long hill climb may be too much for it. Also I noticed you said you are riding with three broken spokes. Be carefull as your wheel may completly fail on you. I find with even one spoke missing it weakens the wheel quite a bit.

Gary