New Project

[o00scorpion00o]

It's looking very smart Mark, but I find it hard to believe it's 40% faster up that hill than the Pie, and while using 14% less power too.
If it had some form of lock up device on the freewheel, controlled by torque on the brake disc, then you could use regen as well.

How does the noise level of the Mac under load compare to the Pie?

Alan
 

Hi Alan,

I'm not sure I would have believed it either until I tried it out myself! 

Ginge will have his setup soon so he can vouch for me, that's of course he actually gets off the bike he will be having so much fun!

That sounds a good idea for the regen, but I think the hydraulic brakes are plenty, but those that don't have them would seriously need hydraulic brakes going much above 20 mph, it's not until some fool pulls out in front of you that you realise how long it takes you to stop with the older style brakes!

Regarding the noise, well it's noisier at certain speeds or how light you press the throttle, at full speed I don't notice it at all, and the wind noise at 32 mph would drown out any noise!

Compared to the pie, well, the pie isn't quiet either and can be noisy at load on a steep hill especially where it starts to bog down a bit.

The pie is a fantastic motor, but it would need more power to compete with the mac without doubt,

Now you could increase the voltage to say 60-72 volts and it would really fly up those hills which is what I would do rather than dump more current in which would heat things up more, but really you could dump 60 amps in to the pie an I wouldn't worry about over heating it, but you are talking LiPo at that stage without doubt, or a very expensive A123 LiFeP04!

Everyone knows that motors are more efficient at higher speeds and that's why the mac is so much more efficient up those hills, it doesn't get bogged down, maybe at 36 volts it wouldn't spin as fast and consume more current because it might not be in the efficiency zone as much, that's something I don't really know but that's the impression I get from testing out the two!

But there is absolutely no escaping the fact that you need to pump a lot more power into the pie to get the same speed up those hills!

17-20 mph @2100 watts for the pie, 1800 watts 27-28 mph for the mac both on the same 48 or really 52 volt ping!

The controller is stronger on the mac, however it consumes less on the hills at 28 mph so that isn't the reason for it being faster or more efficient!

Alan maybe you and Ginge could meet up and he could let you test his mac? 

[MonkeyMagic]

Mark are you going to integrate something into this build Monkey style??
If you don't I will be terribly upset. Haha

How about some LLLLLLLong LLLLLLLLIPOS inside the frame and along the top of the dropouts hmm?

At least Dual MAC that MAC attack you have there, okay there is your bikes nickname right there. MAC ATTACK

Here I even found a suitable decal for you, no charge

[o00scorpion00o]

Mark are you going to integrate something into this build Monkey style??
If you don't I will be terribly upset. Haha

How about some LLLLLLLong LLLLLLLLIPOS inside the frame and along the top of the dropouts hmm?

At least Dual MAC that MAC attack you have there, okay there is your bikes nickname right there. MAC ATTACK

Here I even found a suitable decal for you, no charge

You are a funny guy monkey! lol

Great graphics It's cool, that would look nice on the bike! 


Yeah that's a good idea, though I couldn't find any 8ah 6s long lipo! But for me I don't have the space to make up all the things some of you guys do or the tools, and I'm not so good at making up stuff lol, and my girlfriend is just happy that the bike is outside now and not in bits on the kitchen table LOL, If she knew how much I spent on everything  she does ask though and she laughs when I tell her cause she knows I'm telling little white lies!

It would be cool though if someone starting making battery enclosures for bike frames, though I'll be happy with 2.5 kgs of lipo or 16ah 5kg, it won't be as bad as a 10 kg ping!

Cell-man makes them using A123 batteries, but it's expensive for 11.5 ah 51 volts, but he makes them himself and it takes a lot of time!

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey mate keep your eyes peeled for a road sign or some other big flat piece of metal on the side of the road or lying around, I made a battery mount for a split GM pack that was solid as!!! It took me next to nothing to knock it up and I am no blacksmith haha

Even though I ended up rebuilding it all back in the GM casing, thinking back I think it gave me the confidence to make stuff up for the rest of the build. I'll warn you it's addictive!~@!!

Just don't make the mistake I did and have a good think about what you want, because if you ever consider changing it, the thought will EAT you alive like it did me and you will change it muhahhahahaaaa

my learning experience

[o00scorpion00o]

Yeah that's cool monkey,

Ah I like to keep things as simple as possible and I lack the space to work, pity that, maybe I'll get rich someday move to a bigger place with a big garden and build myself a nice big shed and let my girlfriend keep the house!

[MonkeyMagic]

I have a pretty good inkering my bike is the reason I've been single for ages LOLLL

[o00scorpion00o]

I have a pretty good inkering my bike is the reason I've been single for ages LOLLL

You little stole my smiley's

[DirtyGinge]

well my mac has arrived, not sourced from the same place as mark though....looks nice neat and simple....motor is a 12 wind, so I guess im gonna drop some top end speed for lower end torque......got a steel wheel as well to fit, and of course have dissasemled to have a looksie for some alphawire love.......i think the stock cable can lose upto 200 watts at higher amps ( same wire loom as the gm externals)....

So I guess ill do my ranting style post soon.....Pie versus Mini@500W versus Mac

[o00scorpion00o]

Hey Ginge,

If you have a lower wind than me, probably means it will pull higher amps at lower speeds. maybe you should replace the phase wire alright with the alphawire eco wire!

I didn't have problems withe the phase wires, but I think if you run above 2kw that it will be the motor you will find heats a lot more than the phase wires!

You didn't get it from the same place as me, so you don't have the upgraded gears then?

And the steel gears are said to do more harm to the motor at very high power use, here is the link to the thread

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15439&hilit=mac+gears+gears

Mark really abused the mac and I don't think he used the new gears cell_man now sells with his mac's!

Anyway good luck with wheel build can't wait to hear how your first test drive goes!


Mark

[DirtyGinge]

hey

it is later stock for sure, the side panels are 1 piece as opposed to 2, still ive applied for an order from cell_man too, but you know how speedy he is .....interesting to see the difference for sure...

i think a 10T would have been the right balance, you might wanna check you don't have a 6T, as this might be the reason for the heat

" In fact the speed possible on 48V in a 26" rim with a 6T motor results in power levels above the reliable continuous power levels on these motors."....emmisions-free.com

so I think 8 or 10 would be good.....still if I don't like it, I can always wind less , thats what playtime is for....

still for straights and speeds under 25, a slower wind might work better, guess we are going to find out soon ......

[DirtyGinge]

correction my man, looks like you running 8 turns

[o00scorpion00o]

Yep 8T 320 rpm!

I think this motor pulling me @200 lbs and the bike and a 10 kg ping @28 mph @1800 watts up a steep hill is quiet remarkable, and I think the 8T is the perfect balance between speed and torque for most people.

Those who just want to pull trailers or very heavy panniers might want to install the 3 way switch or get someone to do it to limit the power to maybe 1000 watts if climbing hills and they can pedal along also.

For me It's everything I have wanted, small, light and I can pedal or use power when I'm tired and have fun at the same time!

Even cell_man says the motor has limits and doesn't recommend using it over 2kw, though he is running much more, and has not had problems with the new gears. But he does think that over 2kw might be too much! This is from his website,

Expect approximately 39kph, 24mph on 36V 12S LiFePO4, 48kph, 30mph on 48V 16S LiFePO4, 58kph, 36mph (not recommended for continuous usage at these power levels) on 60V, 20S LiFePO4 with an 8T 500W Mac fitted into a 26" wheel. There are also a slower wound versions, 12T 200rpm and 10T 255rpm loaded at 36V motors which will offer reduced speed for a given voltage with the potential for higher torque. Kits are also available with 700C, 20" and 24" as required

I believe he is talking about 60 volts not 48 as being not recommended for continuous usage! But really at 52 volts 2kw it's crazy powerful!
And on level ground it only uses 1300 watts @32 mph!

[DirtyGinge]

yea mark, my shlongs bigger than yours,, lol..... lol he he he he

well, ill get that mutha spoked up....lets see the difference in the turns.....in fact its great, as I ve been wanting to learn how to phase wire, and to be honest, these motors have room for a lot more copper, a much higher gauge can be added......so I can really experiment with turns etc, find the sweet spot...

Please though, bear in mind, this motor is for me to test my "calorie burn" bike, where I actually want to cycle.....at appproaching 3000 miles, the true choice for me is the DD hub, AKA Magic Pie....low maintenance, low heat.......

but once or twice a week, its nice to remember that you can actually use your feet..


Scorpion, I respect your choice, at shorter mileage,  ( having flogged the crap out of a minimotor), geared is truly much better "feel", but at 250 mph per week, not sure yet .......gears to worry aout, heat etc...


Different stokes for differerent folks

i love the feel of a freewheel, but 1.5 hours either way per day......

reults to follow

[o00scorpion00o]

yea mark, my shlongs bigger than yours,, lol..... lol he he he he

well, ill get that mutha spoked up....lets see the difference in the turns.....in fact its great, as I ve been wanting to learn how to phase wire, and to be honest, these motors have room for a lot more copper, a much higher gauge can be added......so I can really experiment with turns etc, find the sweet spot...

Please though, bear in mind, this motor is for me to test my "calorie burn" bike, where I actually want to cycle.....at appproaching 3000 miles, the true choice for me is the DD hub, AKA Magic Pie....low maintenance, low heat.......

but once or twice a week, its nice to remember that you can actually use your feet..


Scorpion, I respect your choice, at shorter mileage,  ( having flogged the crap out of a minimotor), geared is truly much better "feel", but at 250 mph per week, not sure yet .......gears to worry aout, heat etc...


Different stokes for differerent folks

i love the feel of a freewheel, but 1.5 hours either way per day......

reults to follow

Your shlong is bigger than mine???




Yes it will be interesting how you find the two motors!

I guess you mean 250 miles not 250 mph per week? lol

But yes a lot of people don't have faith in the geared motors for long term use, but they are getting better and time will tell how the mac lasts with the new gears!

I bet this mac of mine will last a long time if I don't abuse it, and I don't go off road on rough trails which is a no no with geared motors seemingly!

I pedal to about 10 mph before I hit the throttle, if I need to that is and I do that mainly because I want to exercise and use it for hills but If I hit the throttle too hard from 0 it will throw me and that happened me once with the pie @80 amps and I don't want it to happen again. It's embarrassing in front of a crowd of teenagers! 

At the end of the day if you want a motorbike style of E-bike and have no interest in pedaling, or you fear over heating or breaking gears and go off road, then go direct drive. If you want to pedal or enjoy cycling then geared is an absolute must, and it's more efficient, and the power is amazing!

[o00scorpion00o]

Hey Ginge did you build your wheel yet?