Is the 500w motor and 36 volt LifePo4 Realiable enough for a daily commute?

[kazbluesky]

Hi everyone, I've been lookingat this forum for a while now.  I want to use my bike for a daily commute to work (about 15kms) but there are a number of hills or gradients that make it just too tough so I'm thinking of adding an electric motor.  My problem is this:  I'm no electrician. I want to buy a product and just have it work - I don't want to have to constantly fart about with it to keep it working.  Could you give me your opinion as to whether if I buy the 36volt 500w motor and the lifepo4 36v 10ah it will last me a few years? 

In total with shipping it's going to cost me around 900 dollars - so I want it to work and be reliable.

What is your honest opinion - worth it or not ?

Thanks in advance,

Ian

[biohazardman]

  The GM kit is good for the more gradual hills.  I have ridden up a few short but steep hills that I would normally not ride up without the motor but for a long steep hill I think something with more torque would be needed unless you are in good physical shape. The 48 volt kit might be a bit better.  The cost factor makes these pretty appealing but the kits are not as complete as it looks.  The rim needs to be replaced immediately the axle nuts too and you will need a torque arm. Still from all I have read the geared are way better on the hills although lacking in top end.  You can over volt most anything and it will help as long as it does not overheat. I have both but the geared is waiting for batteries.  Hopefully someone with both running will offer some of their thoughts on the subject.

[Draggin]

     Commuting is what these things do best.  Your trip will take you about 30min.  You will not break a sweat.   Hills would have to be pretty big to be of any real concern.  Remember you are about 100watts the motor is 600watts.  If I ride my simple bike over an overpass I almost have a heart attack.  With my electric bike it accelerates right to the top.  As for farting with it, thats done after the first trip.  Now there's a fair bit of farting to get things mounted and tucked away.  Once its done its done.  You can be stupid like me and wash your bike with a bucket and brush and spend the next two hours taking it apart to dry it out.  Or lean your bike against the garage and have it fall over breaking the break handle off.  I have regular brakes now and I wipe my bike off once in a while.  Usually after riding in the rain as it already wet.  I havent touched it in the last 3000Km.   I have he 36v kit and 15Ah lifepo4 my trip is 17Km. 10 Ah should get you there and back without charging in between.  I have heard that the other brands have problems with quality too and there all alot more money.....  worth it Draggin       

[kazbluesky]

Thanks for your replies Biohazard and Draggin.  I do have one more question.  I'm English but live in Japan and so can probably get a good quality Japanese 36v battery here (I hear they are more reliable than batteries made elsewhere) The price is about the same.  Would you go with LifePo or go Japanese?  And if the Japanese one, do you think it would be easy enough to get it to work with the golden motor (I do have a soldering iron and a multimeter and a lot of black tape...) .

Again your thoughts would be appreciated.

[biohazardman]

From all that I have read and experienced the LifePo4 batteries supply more amperage from beginning to end and have less voltage sag when doing so.  They are also much lighter and as I tried them first it would be hard to make the change back to something that weighs a significant amount more even if it could match up power wise.  I am extremely happy with the Foxpower LifePo4 pack.  It has no BMS but does have a very good cell balancing charger.  I used to watch the batteries very close but all has been perfect as far as matched voltages go for 700+ miles now.

[Draggin]

     He's right.  If the Japanese one is nickle metal hydride then it's a no brainer.  It needs a special charger too.  300cycles vs 3000cycles.  I was going to teach you how to solder.  But now I'm not.

[sigpaw]

dood!

Based on my personal experience, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on ANYTHING GM. They have real quality control prolems. I have also read all over the net of folks who got a GM motor that "seemed" OK for a while. But they generally (there ARE exceeptions) have mechanical problems after some use. Check out itselectric.ca. They sell some good stuph! GREAT pre-sales customer service!!!

I would strongly recommend you purchase a Chrystalyte hub motor, they sell a superior quality rim with 12 ga spokes, and a reall SOLID motor and casting.. Get a Fox battery pack or cells - definitely go LiFePo4. It's far supeerior to anything else right now.

GM "appears" to be trying to improve, but I get thee impreession they are selling the seconds & defects (@ PREMIUM proces) not wanted in China.

IMHO

[biohazardman]

Well since this is the GM forum and they cost MUCH less than the C-lights many of us have already bought them.  Seems that GM is or was having QC problems with the Lifep04 Batts last I heard.  As for the motors if you read enough in the other forums they all seem to look about the same.  That is of course unless you spend the extra money and buy one from one of the companies that have already sorted out the bad ones before they are sold.  So doubt you will actually find that much of a difference if you count the ones they discount or throw in the trash before we see them. You pay allot for the support they give and if you have the cash it's not a problem. Yes China has Some QC problems, it is true, but then so did Japan, many years back, and look at Taiwan these days, used to be like the China of today, things change albeit a bit slow for those of us looking for instant gratification.  That's the bulk of us myself included.  The GM looks to be a bit more powerful than the 407 & 408?  Oh and I have a C-Lite and a BMC too so no prejudice here. Where you spend your money depends on how much you have what's available in the way of motors as well as what you want.

http://ebikes.ca/simulator/

[Lanchon]

> I get thee impreession they are selling the seconds & defects not wanted in China

has anybody seen GM's factory? could it be that GM is just a reseller? I bought my GM way back and I haven't had any problems (but it's not mounted on an e-bike and it's subjected to less abuse than what would be normal).

[biohazardman]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=golden+motors+china

Looks like they make their own and likely some of the others as well? I believe many have trouble understanding the install and how the motors work at their most basic level.  I have not seen that many problems with the motors themselves.  Chargers are often wired incorrectly though I have seen allot of that.

[biohazardman]

dood!

Based on my personal experience, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on ANYTHING GM. They have real quality control prolems. I have also read all over the net of folks who got a GM motor that "seemed" OK for a while. But they generally (there ARE exceeptions) have mechanical problems after some use. Check out itselectric.ca. They sell some good stuph! GREAT pre-sales customer service!!!

I would strongly recommend you purchase a Chrystalyte hub motor, they sell a superior quality rim with 12 ga spokes, and a reall SOLID motor and casting.. Get a Fox battery pack or cells - definitely go LiFePo4. It's far supeerior to anything else right now.

GM "appears" to be trying to improve, but I get thee impreession they are selling the seconds & defects (@ PREMIUM proces) not wanted in China.

IMHO

Do you have or have you ever had a GM motor?  Personal experience means you have had one.  Please explain.  Yes I agree the Foxpower packs seem to be good batteries.

[kazbluesky]

Thanks for your replies everyone.  Thanks also Sigpaw - I appreciate your opinion too.  To be honest, I've been thinking of buying an electric bike for about a year now but the reliability problems have really been putting me off too - what with the problem rims and the wiring not really seeming to be up to the job and the battery problems. 

In fairness though, from what I've gathered after reading gazillions of posts, seems to be that all these ebike kits have these problems.  The biggest difference being that GM is at least relatively cheap in comparison - and does send out replacements if you are persistant, patient.

Anyway, I took the plunge and bought the kit a few minutes ago from GM and we'll see what happens.  I'll post the times and dates of delivery and let you all know how it goes with bike.  Thanks for the advice (I'm sure I'll be asking for more) I'll post pictures - I always enjoyed seeing what others had done to theirs.

Draggin, I hope you change your mind about teaching me to solder - my soldering sux very large.

Getting excited,

Ian



 

[sigpaw]

My GM motor seized up, only after replacing the rim that was supplied (because it began to split). I spoke with half a dozen bike dealers (mostly Canadian, but one was US) that had reviewed GM motor/wheels. All declined to sell them because of poor quality and workmanship.

I also own two of the GM 36v LiFePo4 battery packs. Both had a cell fail after their first and second use respectively. Shortly thereafter, each began to open up intermittently when placed under a load. GM has agreed to replace the bad cells, but it's been weeks with no arrival. I know of at least two other folks (here in this forum alone) who are experiencing similar problems with their battery packs.

The Crystalyte hub kits are also Chinese, but are of excellent quality. Although the GM design is more efficient, the quality of parts and workmanship are worse than poor. Later I purchased a Chrystalyte 408 rear hub/wheel kit. I have been extremely happy with it. Very well built, with a high quality rim and heavy duty 12 ga spokes. Have been over 500 miles on it with no troubles.

I have seen MANY posts in other forums with similar experiences with GM hub/wheel kits. I didn't do enough research before taking the plunge. Was just trying to spare another soul the same fate - sadly I see I am too late...

[biohazardman]

Sorry to hear about your motor.  I have heard of a few instances of pretty much every brand giving up the ghost one way or another. Yes the GM wheels are junk, replaced mine without even installing it on the bike it was plainly to light weight and not round.  I have in the past cautioned anyone even thinking of using them to not do so as it could be dangerous to your well being as have others.  It is pretty much common knowledge to most here that we replace them it's not that expensive to do so. 

Yes the batteries are a new addition to GM and have had some QC problems from day one from what I have gleaned from several forums including here. 

 As for the C-light motor being any better quality that depends on who you buy it from.  If you pay the price someone will put on a good rim, spokes and test it for you so you don't even see the bad ones but they do and once again if not common knowledge to most here on the forum it should be.  The few e-bike dealers around have allot to do in the way of testing and making the wheels and motors usable once received and before they are sold.  That's why they charge so much more and they rightfully should for the work they do.  Glad you are happy with your 408 and hope it lasts a good long time.

I have the GM, the C-light and a BMC also they all look to be near the same quality of build.  I will need to beat them up a bit more to find any durability issues.

[sigpaw]

Yea, that makes sense.

I got my C-lite from itselectric.ca (on the US side of their web site). I think I paid $450.00 including shipping. Am trying to obtain the BMS board from TPPacks. If I can ever get one delivered, I am going to disassemble both my 36v packs and try to make one good 48v pack. I am told the 408 is good up to 72v. I guess it’ll do 45 mph+ on 72 v. But it should do 34 mph with 48v which is still faster than I am comfortable going on a bicycle. 

I only have one e-bike (so far). It is an 04 model Raleigh C40. I put a 700c rear hub C-lite 408 on it. I really like the controller that came with it! It is sooooo tiny, water proofed really well, and runs nice and cool to the touch, PLUS I am promised it is "good to go" at 48v as well.

Before both my packs "opened up" I was still able to go as far as 40 miles (even with the bad cell) with minimal pedal assist. Achieving speeds up to 23 mph (again with some pedal assist). I REALLY MISS them!!! And am obviously a bit upset since I have "invested" more than $800 in GM with little to show in return.

Hopefully they will eventually come through for me. If so, I will post about it!

l8r,
'Sig