My Magic Pie

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Guys,

I hope you are all well? Long time since I was here!

Well, my pie is still Flying. Nothing I do can kill it. And it still pulls me up any hill I can find. The acceleration is still fantastic. And even my ping seems to be still happy!

I have just hit 800 miles and I really don't get out on it much this time of year. My back tyre is badly worn, damn torque! 

I would really love to run this motor @80amps. Only last time I tried that, I couldn't keep the front wheel on the road, so decided to go for 40 amps instead. I didn't want to pull the throttle on a hill and go flying back. With better weight distribution, I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem and @80 amps it's like a rocket! But in reality a 48 volt 20 amp ping is good for 2C continuous that's 40 amps! I would need a lipo pack for that rated for 4 or 5C and boy are they expensive.

Lipo is much safer these days I believe, but for some reason there seems to be no BMS available for diy builds! It's smaller and lighter too, but with shorter cycles than LifeP04, but from what I have learned over at endless-sphere  is, if you run your lipo to 80% DOD, they you can get well over 1000 cycles, provided of course you get a higher C than you will use!

So from my understanding of that (and I'm far from been an expert on batteries) is, If I want a 20 amp lipo, I really should get a 25 amp and leave 5 amps in reserve to massively prolong the life of the battery!

The Turnagy nanotech seems like really good stuff, however it’s not available in e-bike sized packs and you have to build them up yourself and charging them is a real pain in the ass, and again, there is currently no BMS solution for lipo, that I am aware of and I really don’t know why. There are lipo packs you can buy for e-bikes from different sites, but they are ridiculously expensive! But it’s hard to find them!  And they do actually come with a BMS!

A 20 amp LiPo can cost 1200 USD! Even with 5C rating, that’s still insane considering it’s 300-500 cycles! The Ping battery is so much more better value even if it is 4kg heavier, so what? the rack can take it!

Anyway I am thinking I might say farewell to my Magic Pie in the spring or maybe summer as I really want a freewheeling gear motor. I believe them to be more efficient and they have better torque compared to direct drive at the same power levels. One fellow on  the endless-sphere forum sells them fairly cheap and am considering getting it. Granted it won’t take the 40 amps, but I can limit that with the cycle analyst anyway. I just want the ability to cycle as much as I can without the damn drag of the pie and still have decent hill climbing and be able to go at 30mph!
Anyway I hope all your projects are running well? And no one has fallen off their bikes! ?

Mark

[Bikemad]

Good to hear from you again Mark.

If you can manage to get 30mph from a cheap geared hubmotor, I'd love to know which motor you are using. Although geared motors might produce more torque per watts, they tend to also have a much lower top speed because of the gear reduction used to increase the torque.

The nylon gears used in many of the geared motors can suffer from stripped teeth when subjected to heavy loads.

Alan
 

[o00scorpion00o]

HI Alan,

Good to hear from you too!

Are you suggesting that I'm a heavy load? cheeky!  Only joking!  well you would probably be right 

Yeah I have heard many things about the gears, eah, would it be fair to talk about other suppliers motors on the GM forum? Because I would like to talk about a few here? I have also heard good things, but mainly it seems the problems are from people running their motors at well over twice the rated power!

But there are some better than others, it seems. I know the one I was looking at was fairly cheap and is expecting the gears to be upgraded in the coming weeks, which I would wait for.

To be honest I need to get fit and loose weight and I'm not going to do that with the Pie, as good a motor it really is. I'm only fooling myself by thinking I will get exercise lol    Really though, it's very tough to pedal with the pie, but as a commuter bike it would be ideal for that purpose, or for those that don't care about pedaling at all!


Mark

[DirtyGinge]

if its speed you need, you could look at the crystalite 5 series or some of the BMC V2  range, they will do in excess of 30 MPH on 48V...... (b personally, in the dark winter, I find 25 MPH scary enough, or maybe thats just the honey wine......

otherwise if it is freewheel you need, the gears can be purchased /  modded to be steel planetary gears for longevity, although I hear they are much noisier..........

I myself searched ebay for a "spare bike"( only cost me 50 quid ), one fully electric, one fully plain.. so if I want to cycle, no complications, but work is a 40 mile round trip, so I couldnt do it every day....on comes the pies

[MonkeyMagic]

Mark you're back !@!

Hey man you should take it to the next level again and go dual drive with another external setup. I guess this time you have the advantage of buying the wheel already wired for external Although the Alphawire you put me onto is top stuff

Personally I'm working on probably too many things at once, but a big one is I'm fitting a cyclone brushless motor with a crank freewheel, running back to a 5 or 6 speed.

I've geared it for top speed, I think this is really going to be trial and error initially but I'll take this one for the team and see what happens.

Haven't had time or good light to take pics but I'll throw something together later and post the whole build as a topic for tips

Good to hear your pie is still hungry!!

[o00scorpion00o]

if its speed you need, you could look at the crystalite 5 series or some of the BMC V2  range, they will do in excess of 30 MPH on 48V...... (b personally, in the dark winter, I find 25 MPH scary enough, or maybe thats just the honey wine......

otherwise if it is freewheel you need, the gears can be purchased /  modded to be steel planetary gears for longevity, although I hear they are much noisier..........

I myself searched ebay for a "spare bike"( only cost me 50 quid ), one fully electric, one fully plain.. so if I want to cycle, no complications, but work is a 40 mile round trip, so I couldnt do it every day....on comes the pies

Hi dirtyginge,

Yes I was interested in the BMC V2, but it's rather expensive, I was also interested in the mac 500, I know they run good up to 1000 watts. They are also changing the gears to make them as strong, or stronger than the BMC. SO I would wait until then before I would consider the mac. You can also order a higher speed version to make it more comparable to the bmc v2 speed!

A faster wound Magic Pie would have been nice. I think the only option there would be to buy the 16" version and lace it to a 26" wheel!

But again I think for me now at this stage it's more important to have a lighter motor and free wheel, so geared is the only alternative!

I don't think I would go chain drive, I prefer the look of hubs! However the chain drive would be small and light, and I could use the gears.

I would love to see a proper geared hub motor with different ratios and a way of changing on the handlebars. But obviously the cost would be huge, and I'm sure the motor would be big and heavy!

If I was using the bike to commute then I would probably just pump 72 volts into the pie, which would probably give me 35 mph+ and it would last years and I wouldn't have to worry about gears breaking!

Mark

[o00scorpion00o]

Mark you're back !@!

Hey man you should take it to the next level again and go dual drive with another external setup. I guess this time you have the advantage of buying the wheel already wired for external Although the Alphawire you put me onto is top stuff

Personally I'm working on probably too many things at once, but a big one is I'm fitting a cyclone brushless motor with a crank freewheel, running back to a 5 or 6 speed.

I've geared it for top speed, I think this is really going to be trial and error initially but I'll take this one for the team and see what happens.

Haven't had time or good light to take pics but I'll throw something together later and post the whole build as a topic for tips

Good to hear your pie is still hungry!!

Hi Monkey,

yeah I'm back.    Hope you are well?

How is your dual drive setup going? Have you got pics up? Can the GM batteries actually handle dual drive? I thought they were rated 20 maps max?

I wouldn't go dual drive lol, well not with 2x 40 amp external controllers, they would rip my bike apart!  

I bet your bike weighs a tonne? But you commute on it so it doesn't really matter.

I don't think I would install a pie on the front forks, not with 40 amps anyway!

Yeah I was lucky I found the alphawire, it is really good stuff. It only gets slightly warm when I'm hammering the be Jesus out of it up the steepest hills for a long time.


I can't wait to see your cyclone build, I was never keen on chain drives, maybe I'm afraid of getting my legs or ankles caught in the whole thing LOL. But from what I know of chain drives, they seem to be the most efficient setup and you can get some serious speed. I know they ware out derailleurs and chains, but they can be replaced!


Mark

[GM Canada]

Hi Mark,

I have often considerd a dual mini motor setup and my plans are to build one as my next bike before sppring, I have always wondered how well it would work on my daily commute to work. I like to have several bikes that I let people demo somethimes. If a light dual mini motor bike is not good enough for me it would be great for test rides for potential customers. At least this is how I would convince my wife I need a fifth bike. Good thing she doesnt read the forum

Gary

[GM Canada]

The nylon gears used in many of the geared motors can suffer from stripped teeth when subjected to heavy loads.

Alan
 

Hey, don't rain on my parade!

I guess your saying folks like myself should have some spare gears on hand?

Gary

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Mark,

I have often considerd a dual mini motor setup and my plans are to build one as my next bike before sppring, I have always wondered how well it would work on my daily commute to work. I like to have several bikes that I let people demo somethimes. If a light dual mini motor bike is not good enough for me it would be great for test rides for potential customers. At least this is how I would convince my wife I need a fifth bike. Good thing she doesnt read the forum

Gary

Hi Gary,

Ha Ha, yeah it's good al right non of the wife's or girlfriends read this forum, or we would all be in trouble! 

Yes a dual mini motor set up would be interesting if you do go ahead with it, keep us posted, and take pics too if you wouldn't mind! I would be interested. You would need 2 controllers though? how would you connect the throttle?

And yeah the gears are a worry, I don't know about the mini motors, but I think most people run them at their rated power and don't have much problems. I think most people run the like of the bmc's at much more power than they are rated for which kills the gears. I know mac are upgrading them, I hear bmc are doing an upgrade on them too, can anyone confirm that?


Mark

[GM Canada]

Hi Gary,

Yes a dual mini motor set up would be interesting if you do go ahead with it, keep us posted, and take pics too if you wouldn't mind! I would be interested. You would need 2 controllers though? how would you connect the throttle?

Mark

The Throttle, Brakes and Cruise would all be done the same way I and and a few others in the forum have done their dual pies. You just split the wiring to both controllers.

Gary

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Gary,

Yes a dual mini motor set up would be interesting if you do go ahead with it, keep us posted, and take pics too if you wouldn't mind! I would be interested. You would need 2 controllers though? how would you connect the throttle?

Mark

The Throttle, Brakes and Cruise would all be done the same way I and and a few others in the forum have done their dual pies. You just split the wiring to both controllers.

Gary

Thanks Gary.

I don't really like the idea of mounting a motor on front forks of today's bikes?

[GM Canada]

Thanks Gary.

I don't really like the idea of mounting a motor on front forks of today's bikes?

I understand that, a front fork mount can be a mistake. But I would say it all depends on the bike. I just converted my front wheel drive 48v1000w motor to a dual mini drive. The forks on that bike are rock solid and from the picture in the thead you can clearly see the motor had zero effect on the dropouts and there was no torque bars ever used on this bike. Incase you missed it here is a link to the thread.

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2872.0

Also on my dual drive Pie the forks are even more solid, Ill take a few pictures in the near future to show them here.

Gary