Author Topic: Magic Pie Internal Controller - what can you tell me about it?  (Read 5241 times)

Offline Andrew

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Magic Pie Internal Controller - what can you tell me about it?
« on: October 26, 2010, 07:18:02 PM »
I've got no information on the internal controller that has come with my pie wheel. Can someone post a link to any info?  or can members enlighten me on what i've bought.  Pros, cons and general technical specifications, anything at all  from basic to advanced would be of use.

Rgds
Andrew :)

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Magic Pie Internal Controller - what can you tell me about it?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 11:07:00 PM »
The Pie's internal controller is based on the same PCB as the external cruise controller (more commonly known as the Magic Controller):



Special Features of the controller include:

• Cruise Speed Control
• Programmable via PC to setup motor control parameters
• Motor hall sensor failure redundency (Automatically switch to sensorless control)
• True regenerative braking (only effective when you squeeze the hand brake)
• Other failures redundency (Works with failed throttle and power breaking switches)
• Work with multiple voltages: 24V, 36V and 48V with the same controller
• Support PAS (pedelec for EU regulations)
• Reports failure of components by beeps
• Motor phase self detection and calibration
• Excessive Current Protection
• Low Voltage Protection
• High Reliability

Although the external controllers are advertised as being a 50Amp controller, the maximum current is usually limited to nearer 20 Amps, and there is also a high voltage limit which prevents the controller from operating if the battery voltage is above 60V.
The controller incorporates a temperature operated safety cut out to prevent damage caused by overheating, and has a useful safety feature which automatically prevents the motor from starting if the battery is turned on while the throttle is activated.

This is what the internal controller looks like inside the hub:







The built in controller gives a much neater conversion as there is no need to find addition space to mount a separate controller.
An internal controller is also much less likely to be damaged or removed from the bike (Stolen).

The biggest problem an internal controller is that it is more susceptible to heat build up within the wheel causing it to cut out if it has been working too hard in high temperature environments, and it is also more involved to remove the unit for replacement if it fails.

That's should be enough information to be going on with for the time being.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 11:08:59 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Magneto81

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Re: Magic Pie Internal Controller - what can you tell me about it?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 01:32:15 AM »
What about the speed limit of ~40kph? Has anyone found a way to overcome that? As I near that speed, the power consumption drops and the motor helps me less and less to the point where it's only using about 40 watts and I feel like it's dragging me down.

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Magic Pie Internal Controller - what can you tell me about it?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 01:49:07 AM »

The top speed is limited by the voltage, and the voltage on the Pie's is limited to 60v max.

Using a higher voltage controller and battery is one way of increasing the speed, and reconfiguring the motor windings from Star to Delta is another, but Delta winding would also reduce the slow speed torque and could overload the the controller due to the greatly reduced resistance of the windings.

Unfortunately there is no easy fix to make it run faster.

Alan
 

Offline Andrew

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Re: Magic Pie Internal Controller - what can you tell me about it?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 08:18:17 AM »
Excellent,  It's a steep learning curve for me.  

So as far as programming the controller goes,  I understand that opting for 24v  motor voltage and lowering the regen a bit is a good idea,  but do I leave the Max current settings at default, i.e 30A continuous and 50A peak?  Will changing these parameters actually do anything?


Andrew ???


P.S 
 I best keep a copy of this in a panieer bag!   :D
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 08:23:23 AM by Andrew »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: Magic Pie Internal Controller - Special functions
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 01:35:47 PM »
To avoid any confusion, I should point out that the Magic Pie does not support any of the "Anti-theft alarm" functions described.
This function only appears to work on earlier versions of the external controller when they are used with one of the HBS direct drive hubmotors. Although the alarm would be triggered when a geared mini motor was moved backwards, the wheel locking function would only work in reverse and therefore would not prevent the wheel from turning in a forwards direction.

The "Motor phase Calibrating" instructions are not really relevant to the internal controllers, as they are purpose made for the Pie's and are not intended for use with other motors.

I would also ignore the comment at the bottom of the page regarding beeps being "replaced with flashes of light", because this does not happen.

Alan
 

Offline Magneto81

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Re: Magic Pie Internal Controller - what can you tell me about it?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 08:13:43 PM »
"The top speed is limited by voltage"

That is very very interesting. I thought all along this was very much a software thing - especially since when I change the max speed to a lower setting, everything acts the same way (lower power assistance as my speed increases), just slower.

Luckily I have a cycle analyst to tell me all these things...