Modify internal controller to operate properly with software.

[Leslie]

Edit: I changed the name of this thread because its new title reflects better what I am trying to achieve.

I feel that the Magic controllers were engineered as a controller with 50 amp max like the WEB site says however they are limited for user protection.

But I also feel this so-called user protection has consequences when attempting top use all the MC functions like regen and also hinders good motor performances o take offs.

I recently bought two magic Pies (internal controllers).

The first hub seems limited to 15A cont and 23 amps max.

It seems to draw good current at high RPM and low current at slower RPM.  Every other hubs does this different.

I get to test the second hub tomorrow after I spoke it and get a new tyre. and Gary at GM CA tells me its up for more than 25 amps.

If I notice the difference on take offs I will leave higher draw amp motor on my bike and have to do some modding to the second hub.

To be honest I sort of like it for just running into town and back but towing stuff on it could prove difficult.

Seriously it can barely get up my small grade driveway on a take off but really sucks up the juice and goes fast on the go.  

[MonkeyMagic]

24v setting there Mr. Les ?

how are you anyways man

[Leslie]

Great.  Thanks Monkey.  But how many watts.

I just finished putting the other rim on and it is close to true.

The second hub is slower than the last but does improve when set at 24v 30 amps cont and 50 amps max.

I can get 230 watts on take off on the second hub and over 330 watts on the first hub.  I set the first one down just before I rode it last night and the take off were down below to 220 watts..

I honestly thing these need 50 amp worth of shunts for the software and maybe a 12 fet controller.  Ive never used a six fet.

Going up the drive way on the take offs on the low amp hub set at 24v 30AC and 50AM is better than the higher hub set at what one would call normal parameters.

[Sundsvall]

My MP takes 1630 watts on takeoff if there is an enough steep hill, but I don’t have the MC though.

Do you have any torque arm, Leslie?

[GM Brazil]

1630W!!! wow! 

Mine is the old version and have a record of 1370W with internal controller. 

[Leslie]

My MP takes 1630 watts on takeoff if there is an enough steep hill, but I don’t have the MC though.

Do you have any torque arm, Leslie?

No I dont  have a torque arm yet, I had one prior to my MP but it I never needed it, even when carting heavy loads my dropots are solid.  I could ride with my wheel nuts undone and the axel wont spin out. as My dropouts are very strong by themselves.  Your bike is a fine Dark Lady where mine is a solid iron town bike.  LOL I was going to call her the Iron Maiden but she been ridden too much,. Its a very heavy bulky bike.

1600 watts is prolly too much for the MC internal.

So I have modded Pie no.1 now, I used an old GM 10 amp shunt to bypass the 25 amp shunt in the MC.

With the solid state relay I think I will get another 4  amps cont  on top of the 17 amps cont I'm getting and 8 amps max.  Im hoping for at least 500 watts on the take offs.

The high watts kick in after 5 seconds of acceleration,  The MC 6 fets have too much resistance during high loads are being used.

I am going to make my internal controller external by the end of this week if it lives this long and hopefully have MP no.1 on a solid bike by 2 weeks.

Havent road tested the modded hub yet but the controller works as I hooked it up on a pack with no BMS and she spins alrighty.

I will have some pics and more info on the shunt mod I did soon.

[Leslie]

Well here is my mod I later added more solder because of this picture then re glued the cap back down with out all the gunk on the shunt.




But a bigger problem looms.  This cut had developed on both my hubs.  I have not excessively put too much pressure on this either, "yet" but I have changed the hub at least twice.



The wires were not like this when they arrived, but I feel the cable hole on the MP is too sharp.  Either way no go on the bike until this problem is properly dealt with on both hubs.

To avoid this problem one can hot melt glue gun the wires to base the wires away from the sharp edge.

But

Here is my chance to totally remove the controller on hub no.1

I will make the edges on the cable hole smooth with a file sand paper and steel wool.

Both hubs and controllers still work and am keen to test the modded hub as soon as I stop this cable cutting business..  

[Leslie]

Wooot.

I did a repair job on the axel.  I used some thermal transfer adhesive and filled up the split and glued the cord still. I found a good way to set the cable.

And Oh my 37 amps max.  Im getting around a 1v drop from nominal 51.2.  And getting over 20 amps continuous.

I need to turn the max amps down in the software just a little..

The Mod is working as much as I want it to ATM maybe a little more than I want.

[Leslie]

Yeow!  Way to join to 2000 watt club qualifying at 2009.988 watts.




Ive since changed the settings in the software, Ive almost cot full controlll of the amps and what not.

Now I have set speed limit to 32kph with Forward speed scale set to 75% top speed with the wind 33.3 kph.

Max amps is now 30 amps and continuous is 20 amps.  This feels perfect.  I did a lot of stop starts as this is where the heat will build and the motor got a bit warm.  I believe it wont be so bad cruising at 32kph using around six amps.

Cruise looks more efficient.  I take it for a longer ride tomorrow and see how much power it uses.

Pie No:1 gets a 50 amps shunt put in and we can control the amps via the software properly.



 

[Leslie]

Fresh off the charger with my more conservative software settings im getting 30.42 amps max at 51.6v thats 1569 watts.

In the software with the shunt mod installed the constant current is set to 13 amps but I get 20 amps, and max is set to 25 amps but I get 30 amps.

I may need to go to 36v mode.

With the other hub when I l install 50 amp shunt MOD I will set it to 48v mode.


And looking at the CA it hangs around 1000 watts up to 32kph where it is speed limited to,


I love it.  What I have here is a stocky powerful bike.  Cool off the mark that has an efficient cruise speed.  The speed limit does not take away from the torque during take offs.

I ride around at 33kph up hills and on flats it pretty cool having this constant speed, makes you pedal for anything higher.

[Bikemad]

Hi Leslie,

It's great to see you've manage to tweak your Pie to just over 2KW, I was pretty convinced that you wouldn't be able to resist modding it for very long.
I'm now wondering how long it will be before you try for even more power, or perhaps Delta/Star switching for more speed or just to see which is the most efficient configuration?



5KW might be possible with some 100 Amp FETs and a shunt upgrade, but it would get HOT!

Alan
 

[Leslie]

It would make a big difference if the hole edges are smoothed to begin with.

Ive been looking out for this you know.


Maybe if I wasnt changing my hub around so much and I set the cable straight to begin with It would not of been so bad.  Thats 3 times Ive taken each hub off now.

I wasnt being too carefull till now, careful enough if it was so cut throat.  Until I get some cables and do this external controller thing I am just going to leave this on and glued up safe.


It can be avoided but I think this was due to just vibrations and the cable sitting against the edge.


Lucky I caught it in time.

[Leslie]

Anyway.

From what I am discovering the MC controller is supposed to have 50 amp shunt in it so you can run the MC software at 48v with the right current settings.

I put in one shunt I need to go to 36v setting but turn max amps up.  If I add two shunts I need to keep the high max amps but go up to the 48v setting.

If I use three 10 amp shunts I guess I can set the max amps down then.  To some degree the BMS in the ping BMS is already adding some and allows around 75A peak.

Before the shunt mod the bike was sluggish and the figures I put into the software is not eve close to what I am getting but the more I unrestrict the current the more the software becomes calibrated and useful.

What point of LVC if you need to set the controller at 24v or even REGEN with an full range duty cycle capability happening and a 20 amp bottle neck stuck in before it, is definitely one reason why these controllers are failing.

Hey I'll even be tempted to try regen when the controller wont allow a larger v drop between the battery and fet side of the shunt.

With all this new found power I need to keep sight on my battery capabilities and also what amps can the coils take inside the motor.  The best I should allow is 25 amps max for my battery sake.

But I want all the amps from take off.  Where the resistive shunt is taking all of the power away at high load times a 50 amp shunt should certainly liven things up.  


The software controls are good to use for current limitation as it is more efficient to use switching, and switching methods of current control does not prejudice due to resistance but rather lowers the effect of resistance by use of pulse technology.

It will be tomorrow I will get some gear and make the internal controller external with a big fat hunky heat sink on my fets and a 50 amps worth of shunt in place and see if I can control this thing with the software alone.

[Leslie]

I just took it for its first real run with the 10 amp shunt installed.  The ride consisted of 4 hills 2 short steep hills one small hills not so steep and one moderate hill.  I think I would climb 100 meters on this ride maybe.  Typical of my over all usual usage.

Much better on the roads,  I measured my wheel circumference and calibrated the CA it was close enough at default.

I did 7.80 kms and consumed 1.93 ah.  Top speed 35kph.  Thats 247ma per KM 12.08 wh/km

With the 15ah pack if I divide 15ah by 247mah I get 60km range.  Let say I don't want my pack to go lower than 25% state of charger I still get 45kms range. 

Thats insane.  Here I have a MP hub that pulls 1500 watts and can go 45kms distance and it moves off the mark with no hesitation.  The motor was warmish to touch.

I could prolly lose some heat by adjusting the max amps down just a little more and not lose too much performance.  I think with the 50 amp shunt the bike will be better again.

Im think having speed limit can save power in some situations but create heat with lots of stop starts.  Maybe why I should remove the controller from the PIE all together.

[Leslie]

I set the controller to 36v. 25 amps peak and 17 amps continuous.

I now get 25 amps max on the dot and it hovers around 20 amps continuous.

Ive shaved 250 watts off the last setting I tested so this may decrease the warmth I feel in the motor a bit.