Author Topic: *resolved* Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies (again)  (Read 111780 times)

Offline Magzy

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2010, 01:19:28 AM »
Thanks for getting back Gary.

The Australia post estimate to send back the motor I have here is  $57 USD by sea (give or take a cheeseburger)  which at the start of this episode would have been totally unacceptable given that the motor is brand new.

But all things taken into account, having a motor that can't use and with no prospect of ever using it, $57 is a fair price to pay in order to get on the road in 2 weeks and know exactly where I stand with the whole thing.

This is currently the best option out of a whole tray of sh!t sandwiches but it probably leaves you to eat the rest and in all honesty, I'm not particularly happy about this either.

So how about this:

I will pay upfront $100 to GM China have a new motor shipped from GM China (by Air 8-10 business days by EMS) on the condition that they TEST it first to ensure that there is no pinging noise when *under load* (what they should have done in the first instance - it's called QA or Quality Assurance it's 100 times cheaper to do this than p!ss off your "company life energy" - your customers)

Assuming Leslie is still offering to fix my broken MP, I'll send it to Leslie here in Australia for just $15 postage (2 business days to either QLD or was it VIC? - doesn't matter same difference give or take a beer)  so he can look at the defective wiring and attempt to fix it. If successful, he can then either keep it/sell it / hang it on the wall or whatever for $100 payable to me at some non committal point in the future.

If he never fixes it then no pressure on Leslie it's  tough sh!t for me - but he's an Aussie and he has a can-do attitude. I have complete faith in him.

In doing it this way, no one is then out of pocket as follows:

1. I get my new motor that doesn't make a loud noise - in 8 days - I will be happy !!!
2. Gary isn't out of pocket.
3. Leslie gets to play with a MP and when he fixes it I get my $100 back.
4. It allows GM to honor their warranty in good faith without having to pay any money to EMS shipping it to Australia.

I'm personally taking all the risk here and I'm prepared to take that risk knowing that only good can come from it and ultimately it will mean peace and harmony on Earth for all mankind.

If GM refuse this then karma will ensure that their company meets with a timely death.

Thoughts?
Magzy




Offline Bikemad

  • Global Moderator
  • Professor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,553
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #76 on: November 02, 2010, 04:05:56 AM »
I'd like to see your Magic pie on youtube making the same pinging noise as mine when under load.

Here's a very short poor quality video of me putting my fingers in the spokes and slowing the wheel down very slightly to produce the pinging noise, hopefully the sound quality is good enough to demonstrate the noise coming from my Magic Pie under this slight load.
I still maintain the noise is caused by the torsional flexing and releasing of the aluminium stator assembly with each magnetic pulse of the motor.

The noise may not be quite as loud as yours, but as I mentioned before, the semicircular plate bolted to my stator should theoretically reduce the noise by reducing the torsional springiness of the stator.

Magzy, I realise you probably still think my explanation is "bullsh!t", but as an experienced mechanical engineer, I'm going to stick with my original theory, which I still believe to be correct, but I could be persuaded to change my opinion, if someone can provide a more logical and feasible explanation.

Alan
 

Offline Magzy

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #77 on: November 02, 2010, 05:25:02 AM »
I'd like to see your Magic pie on youtube making the same pinging noise as mine when under load.

Here's a very short poor quality video of me putting my fingers in the spokes and slowing the wheel down very slightly to produce the pinging noise, hopefully the sound quality is good enough to demonstrate the noise coming from my Magic Pie under this slight load.
I still maintain the noise is caused by the torsional flexing and releasing of the aluminium stator assembly with each magnetic pulse of the motor.

The noise may not be quite as loud as yours, but as I mentioned before, the semicircular plate bolted to my stator should theoretically reduce the noise by reducing the torsional springiness of the stator.

Magzy, I realise you probably still think my explanation is "bullsh!t", but as an experienced mechanical engineer, I'm going to stick with my original theory, which I still believe to be correct, but I could be persuaded to change my opinion, if someone can provide a more logical and feasible explanation.

Alan
 

Alan, I didn't mean to be facetious over the torsional theory It was just my opinon in what amounts to boiling frustration over having a bought a motor under the specific understanding that it was "quiet" and discovering it's as loud an idling 4stroke petrol motor.

I've seen other motors in the city - A Magic pie included and they are not loud at all - in fact the low whir noise they make gets absorbed into the low hum you get in cities - which is exactly what I wanted to buy. In fact having seen how quiet the MP was in the city first hand was the turning point in making the decision to go with the MP ...BECAUSE IT WAS SO QUIET AS IT CLIMBED THE HILL I WAS ON AT 4-5 METERS AWAY.

From this distinct observation and taking all facts into account (not the theories) I have defective motor and I firmly stand by this.

Offline GM Canada

  • Super Gary
  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,544
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #78 on: November 03, 2010, 05:09:26 AM »
Thanks for getting back Gary.

The Australia post estimate to send back the motor I have here is  $57 USD by sea (give or take a cheeseburger)  which at the start of this episode would have been totally unacceptable given that the motor is brand new.

But all things taken into account, having a motor that can't use and with no prospect of ever using it, $57 is a fair price to pay in order to get on the road in 2 weeks and know exactly where I stand with the whole thing.

This is currently the best option out of a whole tray of sh!t sandwiches but it probably leaves you to eat the rest and in all honesty, I'm not particularly happy about this either.

So how about this:

I will pay upfront $100 to GM China have a new motor shipped from GM China (by Air 8-10 business days by EMS) on the condition that they TEST it first to ensure that there is no pinging noise when *under load* (what they should have done in the first instance - it's called QA or Quality Assurance it's 100 times cheaper to do this than p!ss off your "company life energy" - your customers)

Assuming Leslie is still offering to fix my broken MP, I'll send it to Leslie here in Australia for just $15 postage (2 business days to either QLD or was it VIC? - doesn't matter same difference give or take a beer)  so he can look at the defective wiring and attempt to fix it. If successful, he can then either keep it/sell it / hang it on the wall or whatever for $100 payable to me at some non committal point in the future.

If he never fixes it then no pressure on Leslie it's  tough sh!t for me - but he's an Aussie and he has a can-do attitude. I have complete faith in him.

In doing it this way, no one is then out of pocket as follows:

1. I get my new motor that doesn't make a loud noise - in 8 days - I will be happy !!!
2. Gary isn't out of pocket.
3. Leslie gets to play with a MP and when he fixes it I get my $100 back.
4. It allows GM to honor their warranty in good faith without having to pay any money to EMS shipping it to Australia.

I'm personally taking all the risk here and I'm prepared to take that risk knowing that only good can come from it and ultimately it will mean peace and harmony on Earth for all mankind.

If GM refuse this then karma will ensure that their company meets with a timely death.

Thoughts?
Magzy


The problem with this plan is

- I don't see GM road testing a motor for you, I will.
- Leslie is a great guy but does not work for GM. He is just bothered by your situation.
- I can not control when or if they will send you a replacement.


Gary


Offline GoldenMotor

  • GoldenMotor
  • Emperor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,040
  • Dark Templar
    • GoldenMotor Youtube
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #79 on: November 03, 2010, 01:39:17 PM »
Hi all,

Bikemad has brought this to my attention. You all should already know this. Customers who are happy with our products would less likely be on this forum because they are enjoying the product. Customers who are having problems would find solutions online as it is the fastest way. They would eventually end up here. I am pretty sure I solved approx. 70% of the problems here. The only problems we don't solve are the problems which cannot be solved at the moment.

Customers who have their problems solved would not post on this forum about how it was solved. We would not expect them to post here either, they should be enjoying our products. It is human nature to do this because everyone alive in this decade would think ideally. Hence GM tries to make it ideal.

Think about 2 years ago, when we had NO dealers. How am I going to replace any item by means of air shipping a new one to the customer and paying for the air shipping again for shipping the customer's defective product back to us for debugging? So we said we would set up local support and we did. It is much easier to access any local store and complain directly to them, in which dealers such as our Canadian Dealer, Gary, have to deal with. After the customer has complaint to the Dealer, dealers would then complain to me and the whole of GM. But! it is easier for the Dealer to inspect the problem and find a solution to it and replace the item on the spot if the problem is genuine. I wouldn't say "complain" but that's the role of being a dealer. This way everything works out easier and it is much more cost effective for us to replace the defective item and inspect it locally to pinpoint the errors to prevent them from happening again.

*We do exchange faulty products, however we must find a cost effective way, otherwise there would be no point in making and selling them.

On the other hand, the ultimate solution for problems would be Quality Control which was already implemented in August 2010. However the factory was not fully functional so we had to outsource certain components and materials. It should be fully functional by the end of this year, also the MP3 (Magic Pie v.3) would be the one with most of the issues solved and new functions. Count the years that Magic Pie has come out. It came out October 20th, as many of you would have remembered the 160 deal, 2009. It has only been 13 months since it came out, and already it is Version 3. The big picture, undeniable, is that we, the chinese(chinks), are doing our best to solve the Root problem. An old saying in china that we believe in is Zan Cao Chu Gen. It means if you want to destroy the weed, you need to destroy it's roots as well. I, as one of the managers in GM, have already expected MANY problems to appear because this is a fairly new product. However, the point of having this forum is to solve it faster. We get complaints and Tom, who's in US now, is making records and translating the problems to the engineers and getting it solved before the next batch of MP's come out. Sit back and think about the entire timeline since october last year. Please tell me this is making sense to anyone who has a grudge against me, and hopefully it would change something.

Anyway, I have found it very pleasant to deal with any member of this forum, even if it get's ugly, every quarrel would help in improving the next batch of products we make. I have given english-speaking dealers authority in this forum so that the people would know who they are talking to. Thanks to dealers like Gary, who is actively involved in the forums, him and GM are getting first-hand information about problems that we are solving. I don't think we need to post a youtube video of our factory and our engineers do we?

Oh you might think we don't dare show ourselves! Very well then, once it is up and running, I will post a video to let everyone see what's going on inside.

Cheers,
Yao Yuan

Offline GM Canada

  • Super Gary
  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,544
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2010, 01:56:20 PM »
Hi Yao

While you are here following this thread, How about looking into Magzy's situation. He received a MP with a loud pinging noise. He was told it was a bearing. Before he could change it his controller failed. I sent him a new one and the wheel was spinning again but still with the loud pinging sound. He replaced the bearings at his expence. I refunded him his money spent, but the noise still is there. If you look at the pictures of the inside of the motor it is all scarred on the magnets and the stator. Can GM please send him a new motor? I am sure he would be willing to have it relaced himself as long as he could get a replacement. I realize you have to be cost effective on replacement, but does that mean I have to send him a new motor at my expence?

Best Regards
Gary

Offline Magzy

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #81 on: November 04, 2010, 12:55:38 AM »
Magzy contacted me before he purchased this wheel saying he would like to buy it though me as he felt I had a better reputation in warranty issues.
Gary

I can confirm this is correct. I never wanted to have to get help with the MP but I'm I am very glad I went through Gary instead of Golden China because of the communication problems people face.
There's nothing worse in the land of e-commerce than thinking you have been ripped off or sold a donkey with no way out but to resign yourself to this fact.
If it wasn't for Gary and the members on this forum, who at the moment are completely shoring up GM on the customer service front, GM would would die in the west.

In hindsight, I should have seen the all the warning signs in plain sight here and avoided buying the MP but you never think these nightmare scenarios happen to you do you?

A life lesson is that you always get what you pay for.

I am very grateful for Gary and the members on this forum for keeping the candle lit with respect to GM's byzantine and torturous position. But candles don't but forever.


Offline Leslie

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,047
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #82 on: November 04, 2010, 02:23:26 AM »

I have a ping pumping out 53v at 30 AH max]


Ohh BTW with the ping pack if you actually test the voltage fresh off the charger its over 60v.  After a few minutes of being disconnected from the charger will the volts go down to 53v

The magic controller and MP internal controller have HVC set around 60v.  On "my" MP it allows you to use the motor at 59.7v or lower, on the dot.

If I test my MP while the Ping is balancing on its charger the controller will not work.


On the CA I watch the volts go down past 59.7v and the MP fires up.


Just one to watch for.  Your controller should work fine but you will have to wait a minute for the volts to go down, I would disable regen for this battery too.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 02:26:27 AM by 317537 »

Bring it on

Offline MonkeyMagic

  • Cheeky Chimp
  • Technical Officer
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,041
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #83 on: November 05, 2010, 12:47:47 PM »
I will be road testing a wheel for Magzy this weekend. I'm also going to try to video the test run and see if I can get a reasonable sound track going as well. If all goes well a swap will be made.

Gary

Awesome !!

Now that's something I want to read about. Good on you mate, make sure you claim dry cleaning your cape at tax time :)

Offline Leslie

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,047
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #84 on: November 05, 2010, 08:25:33 PM »
Gary do you test the controllers too.  Ha I guess its not so expensive to replace a controller.  Everyone told GM the internal controller may prove to have such issues.

I on the other hand find the internal controllers fine and easy enough to replace.  To make life easy I left a little bit of insulator on the wires when I cut them so I didnt need to follow a wiring diagram.  Looking for a local supply of circlips or a better alternative to using them ATM is my next project.

I used the old clips on one hub I took appart, it feels solid now put together, but it worries me a bit as I had to bend one clip to get it off.

Bring it on

Offline Leslie

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,047
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #85 on: November 07, 2010, 01:03:55 PM »

So have we fixed the loud knocking noise yet?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 02:20:07 AM by Bikemad »

Bring it on

Offline GM Canada

  • Super Gary
  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,544
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #86 on: November 07, 2010, 06:26:31 PM »

So have we fixed the loud knocking noise yet?


Hi Magzy

I'll reply to Leslies post as this one is on topic. I have created a video. Keep in mind this wheel is mounted without a tire and is on an aluminum dropout hanging on a steel fence. So in use it should be alot quieter. Let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxjHv04ufQ8

Gary
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 02:20:26 AM by Bikemad »

Offline MonkeyMagic

  • Cheeky Chimp
  • Technical Officer
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,041
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #87 on: November 07, 2010, 06:31:03 PM »
PERFECT EXAMPLE !!!

Excellent demonstration Gary. I second this as it's the exact sound when holding my bike in the air with the throttle on

:)

Offline GM Canada

  • Super Gary
  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,544
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #88 on: November 07, 2010, 08:51:37 PM »
Thanks MM. What is your opinion on how your wheel sounds on the ground when riding as opposed to off the ground. Is it quieter, louder or about the same.

Gary

Offline Magzy

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies
« Reply #89 on: November 07, 2010, 09:45:09 PM »

So have we fixed the loud knocking noise yet?


Hi Magzy

I'll reply to Leslies post as this one is on topic. I have created a video. Keep in mind this wheel is mounted without a tire and is on an aluminum dropout hanging on a steel fence. So in use it should be alot quieter. Let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxjHv04ufQ8

Gary

Excellent video Gary, This sounds much more like it should.

How does it sound at a standing start under load?

Magz
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 02:20:55 AM by Bikemad »