*resolved* Loud knocking noise coming from Brand New MP - then dies (again)

[GM Canada]

GM themselves seem unable to recognise and accept that this problem is actually their responsibility!

Alan
 

One further thought. If you bought a car, a fridge, a stereo or any other real life purchase and it failed. The manufacturer would supply all the parts and pay the dealer to fix it. If the items is beyond reasonable repair the dealer would replace it and the dealer would receive another from the manufacturer at no cost to the dealer including any shipping costs. Does anyone know of any other business that this would not be the situation? I think not...

Gary

[Magzy]

Update: Spent all day Sunday replacing the good quality bearings I bought locally.

The short story is TOM from Golden Motor, the guy who looks after warranties told me that the bearings were broke and need to be replaced. This was after he told me that the broken controller must have been my battery (a Brand new Ping v 2.5) - which indeed was fine.

Replacing the bearings did nothing to address the electrical pinging noise.

The pinging noise filmed in Full HD and is here (Please note the difference between the freewheel noise and the Pinging noise - they are different)

This was filmed just before replacing the bearings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRErVvVD4E4&feature=player_embedded

Pics...for the morbidly interested

Herewith, a pair of NTN Bearings $10 each - a whole day's pay


My workshop


Freewheel side bearing came out with a bit of hard knocking from the other side it took a bit of damage but the GM MP bearings are surprisingly good quality and didn't sustain great damage. New bearing went in with the persuasion illustrated in the next pics..


Gentle taps with a heavy rubber implement...


...didn't work and needed a bit more force. Note how I was using the old GM MP bearing as a template to spread the force of the hit around the outside of the New bearing...


Nearly home


First bearing is now flush with the wheel. I'm happy with this side. Now for the other side.


Now, This bearing is going to be more tricky. The wire coming out of the hub needs to be threaded back into the bearing and the axle so it can come off.


I take a picture of this because I knwo that these wires need to come out of the socket. This picture is so I know exactly which colour goes into which socket when I re-attach the wires after putting the new bearing on.


using the smallest allen key to unclip the clips- they come out with a bit of pulling once you hear the dislodging click.


Having pulled all the wires (the phase and hall wires) to the bearing. I have to thread each one, one by one through the gap between the axle and the bearing. No mean feat. The sharp axle has threaded bare some of the wires - these will need repairing.


Got it off - Finally (after moving everything inside because a thunderstorm came over)


Some Damage on the GoldenMotor Bearing that I didn't notice before. To be honest, this dark casing is just a plastic casing that seems to keep out small bits. The bearing itself seems to be in good working operation apart from being slightly harder to turn than the other one.


New bearing feels reassuringly snug.


While I'm at it... If Golden Motor ever go into bankruptcy , they can rest safe in the knowledge that they make great razor blades on their axles.


For the benefit of anyone thinking of how the hall sensors look on the MP with external controller here's the hall sensors in white silicone - undamaged i.e. nothing has scraped against them.



Wires going into the Hall sensors - and my finger which was cut by the razorblade edges of the axle.


My reassembled Magic Pie with the Golden Motor bearings - which in all honesty, are of very good quality and not damaged. But, alas, I have wasted a day doing this


The new bearings did not get rid of the pinging noise. But hopefully someone will be able to use this post at some point in the future if they need to replace the bearings.

In any case, I am still with a noisy motor exactly as it is in the youtube video above and can't use it because it may fry the controller again.

Your Move Golden Motor  

[GM Canada]

Hi Magzy

I refunded you 25 dollars to cover the cost of those bearings and any paypal fees.

I must say very impressive post on your work! Why is everyone better at this then me? Great pictures, video and detailed description of the bearing replacements. I will send you a private email in a few minutes.

Gary

[Magzy]

Hi Magzy

I refunded you 25 dollars to cover the cost of those bearings and any paypal fees.

I must say very impressive post on your work! Why is everyone better at this then me? Great pictures, video and detailed description of the bearing replacements. I will send you a private email in a few minutes.

Gary

Wow - You didn't need to do that Gary but thanks anyway.

and thanks for your prompt response.

Just need to sort the noise out now.. any joy with GM on a replacement?

I'm hesitant to keep posting on here because it moves it to the top of the page and gives GM bad publicity. I don't want to stir up any hornets nests in that regard - just want a working motor. i.e. what I paid for.

Regards,
Magzy

[Bikemad]

When I read your post about " I filed it down until I could run my tongue along it " I think wow this guy really loves his bike.

Gary, It's not love, Leslie was just tasting his Pie to confirm that it had not been overcooked by his shunt modification.

The pinging noise filmed in Full HD and is here (Please note the difference between the freewheel noise and the Pinging noise - they are different)

This was filmed just before replacing the bearings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRErVvVD4E4&feature=player_embedded

The new bearings did not get rid of the pinging noise.

In any case, I am still with a noisy motor exactly as it is in the youtube video above and can't use it because it may fry the controller again.

Magzy, I don't think you're going to like what I'm about to say, but the noise I am hearing on the video does not sound bad to me, and I would not have described it as a "Loud knocking noise".

I have a Magic Pie with the internal controller which I would say makes a very similar sound to yours, although I must admit it is not quite as loud as yours. As I've already mentioned, it is my experience that these motors are not silent and they can be heard from some distance away.

After hearing your motor, my honest opinion is that the pinging noise coming from your motor in the video is perfectly normal, although I suspect the noise is slightly noisier on your Magic Pie because it has the external controller.
Magic Pies with internal controller have a semicircular heatsink plate bolted to the stator spokes as shown here:


This plate (whether intentionally designed to do so or not) also helps to stiffen up the stator spokes and therefore reduces the amount of torsional wind up within the stator itself when under load. I would expect the resultant pinging noise on the internal Pies to be less noticeable because of it.

I run mine mainly on a 25.9V pack, which also reduces this noise because there is less power being produced by the motor.

I still don't know why your original controller failed, but having listened to your noise, I am no longer concerned about possible further damage due to continued use of your motor.

I would give it a good run and see how it actually performs, as I think you may be expecting more low speed acceleration than this 1HP motor actually produces.
 
I realise this is probably not the response you were expecting, but I have tried to be as honest as I can be.

Alan

EDIT: Picture link repaired

[Andrew]

have you listened to the motor on the clip as a comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjKr6klQD3U

[Andrew]

Magzy,
it must be said that it does sound really loud to me. Now you know why all MP official videos have sound tracks over the audio

I have not got my Pie up and running just yet, but as soon as I do I will film with sound the motor running, although mine has an internal controller. If it is as loud as yours, and that is normal, then I will not be impressed, as this will certainly not add to my stealth plan for commuting through city traffic

[Magzy]

have you listened to the motor on the clip as a comparison...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjKr6klQD3U

This is what mine sounds like when it's not under load and to be honest, if mine sounded like this all the time then I would be happy.

As soon as I put load on it then I get the loud pinging noise and it is far from silent.

After takig it apart twice, on advice from GM, the internal magnets have all scratched (one has chipped completely) - and all the wires have been damaged by the sharp axle. The outside had multiple scratches all over it from where I've been working around it ( I don't have a workshop) even If I was to get it working correctly then I would not feel like I have a new motor.

Bikemad - seeing as have some influence with Golden Motor, perhaps you can get them to change the meaning of this sentence to it's opposite?


and change this page http://www.goldenmotor.com/magicpie/compare.html so the warranty for the Magic pie says "Unknown" from "1 Year, Upgradable to 2 Years"

I don't know about China but in Australia and probably most other countries in the western world, this would contravene the trade descriptions act or advertising act and would in all honesty be false advertising and possibly illegal.

The MP, for me has not been quiet and reliable and the warranty on the hub has been (so far) non existent. Instead I have been lied to and led down the garden path in opening it twice.

This is a huge disappointment and anyone thinking of buying a MP from GM should honestly take my experience as a stern warning of what to expect if the hub goes sour.

Regards,
Magzy

[Andrew]

I'm starting to wish i'd gone for the 1000w HBS motor and external controller

[Magzy]

Can any other Magic Pie owner conform that the MP emits a loud pinging noise when it's in use?

Like my neighbor said yesterday "It sounds like an unattended fishing line, I can hear it while I'm watching T.V."

[Magzy]

Bikemad, this is the description of the MP's problem from the first post in this thread.

When I put the MP under any slight load, I hear a loud knocking/ticking noise. I'm not saying this is the cause but to give you an idea what it sounds like, it sounds like a cable tie is catching against a set of closely grouped spokes - and only happens when the MP is under load.

I stand by what I said in the first instance and that I have bought a defective Magic Pie from Golden Motor that emits a loud noise and they are doing nothing to remedy the problem. I doubt very much the stator arms are "bending" because this defect  will even happen when there's very limited load on the wheel.

For example, if I turn the bike upside down and apply the smallest amount of throttle and put the cruise on so the wheel is turning like once every 5 seconds - this is really slow ok there's no way in the world that the stator arms are bending or flexing under pressure ok?

Now, if I put my finger in the spokes and slow the wheel down very slightly then I get the pinging noise. One ping for each 3rd magnet of movement i'd say.  So, from what you are saying is that my finger, slowing down the wheel, is causing the stator arms to **flex** You know what I think this is? I think this is bullsh!t. I've had that motor apart twice and there is no way that it's stretching from the force of my finger.

Just for one second think however, if it was stretching, I'd hear it rubbing against the rotor wall and not pinging like a ratchet.

The last option I have is to test the Hall sensors and test for continuity in the wires - as Bikemad says,

...if they have been wired the wrong way around then this would account for the pinging noise.

After ruling out accusations of "defective Battery" and "Broken Bearings "

which is it? "twisting cast iron stator" or "defective hall sensor / hall sensor wiring"?

Could it be that the controller is configured for another smaller motor like the HBS? Can I reconfigure the controller to my hub in any way?

I'd like to see your Magic pie on youtube making the same pinging noise as mine when under load.

Regards,
Magz

[GM Canada]

the warranty on the hub has been (so far) non existent.

Hmm, I do understand your frustration. But I'm not quite sure this statement is true. I have already sent you a controller and refunded you the money you spent on bearings. I am also still trying to get you a replacement from GM China and if they don't do it I will. So things may not be moving as well as either of us woiuld like it, but its not over yet!

Best Regards
Gary

[Magzy]

the warranty on the hub has been (so far) non existent.

Hmm, I do understand your frustration. But I'm not quite sure this statement is true. I have already sent you a controller and refunded you the money you spent on bearings. I am also still trying to get you a replacement from GM China and if they don't do it I will. So things may not be moving as well as either of us woiuld like it, but its not over yet!

Best Regards
Gary

Sorry Gary I said the hub i.e. the motor itself which is defective. I know you've replaced the controller in lightning fast speed and been very supportive and this has not gone unnoticed by people on the forum and myself.

I appreciate all your efforts in attempting to getting this sorted over a problem that's really not your fault.

[Magzy]

Thanks for this MEB it helps me a lot.

In fact the pinging noises you describe remind me of the problem I was having with the sensors and trying to get everything synced with the controller so I would suggest you start by not using the hall effect sensors and syncing only to the EMF.

Yes, this makes complete sense, if the hall sensors are out of alignment or wired up incorrectly then I should be able to use the motor in sensor-less mode using the cruise control button. The absence of any pinging noise in this scenario will identify the problem being directly related to the hall sensors but one can only use the bike at half speed so it's not really a long term fix. Just a diagnosis.

I'll give it a whirl tonight when I get home. (if you pardon the pun)
Magz,

[GM Canada]

Sorry Gary I said the hub i.e. the motor itself which is defective. I know you've replaced the controller in lightning fast speed and been very supportive and this has not gone unnoticed by people on the forum and myself.

I appreciate all your efforts in attempting to getting this sorted over a problem that's really not your fault.

I'm still not getting a response about your situation. If you are still not happy with your motor I have a suggestion. Since the shipping is so high between us (almost double what it would cost from China to Austrailia) think about this. Take off the spokes and rim and ship me just the motor. This cuts shipping cost by two thirds. Ship it to me any method you like. Sea would be cheapest through your postal service. Make sure you clearly mark the box "Being returned for warranty replacement". That way there will be no duty. I expect it to take 8 weeks from previous experience ( I never slept through the last 2 of those ). Email me a copy of the shipping receipt. When I receive it, Ill test ride a motor, remove the spokes and rims and ship it to you without waiting for yours to arrive. Im not sure of the shipping method, but I'll try to get it to you in less then 2 weeks.

Think about it, at least i'm trying
Gary