Battery Charging or not charging? That is the question.

[Onetom2]

Last week I installed a 250w kit with the 36volt 16ah battery. after riding some time and experiencing what appeared to be a premature loss of battery power. Returning home I attempted to charge battery with supplied charger. The unit flashed a red indicator for a few seconds then stopped, with no further indication of what is happening. After approximately 6 hours the LEDs on the twist throttle only show red and yellow, no green. I somehow want to see some indication from the charger pack that it is functioning, considering the red led did flash for that few seconds. I read as much as I could find about the charging process and this suggests 4 hours should give a full charge? Could you please advise?

[Hardcore]

I've had some charging problems myself and found out that my female connector wasn't that good connected, try somethings with that like using a bandage(elastic) to push it in harder. After that you could check your voltage, if it really is to low(don't excactly know what the lvc is for 36v) then you could try using regen breaking to fill the battery a bit for the bms to recognize it's almost empty and after that is all failed to give you what you paid for then I would suggest emailing tom explaining your problem. I would like to suggest a small amount of words to explain your problem as I think tom isn't that great in english. When he doens't replies withing 2 to 3 days contact the rest of goldenmotor, maybe before that you could also check with your.

In my experience it's probably a lose connection between the battery and charger as it is charging a bit but not in the time that would normally give you a full battery.

Hope this helps

[Onetom2]

Does the battery have to be switched on to charge? I actually went back to the charger and having switched on the battery then plugged in and switched on the charger. Once again it began the clicking and the led flashing for about 30 seconds or so then stopped? No amount of cautious fiddling and pressuring would make any difference. I think connections are very weak all round actually. There were no connectors crimped onto the battery power lead. I ended up soldering those. Thanks for your input I will do more tomorrow. I am in Melbourne Australia at 01.40hrs I have some Chinese friends not far from the factory actually...I might try and get a chinese translation of my problem to post to Tom.
Thanks again

[Hardcore]

Are you able to check any voltage, the one out of the battery and/or the charger(be carefull with the charger as the pos and neg can't touch eachother while plugged in)

[Onetom2]

Yes hmm, I looked at that coaxial style connector and pondered the question of safe testing. At the same time reconnecting the battery & charger the switch on had the same few seconds of what sounds like a relay switching accompanied by the flashing red led in the charger case. I just noticed on the charger case label some extremely small type with red and green dots. It seems they Indicate the chargers state. The red dot (I assume refers to the red led) indicates charging. The green dot indicates full....meaning fully charged I assume. So it would seem something isn't quite right with this charger if it keeps switching on and off, right? I have not seen any green indicator. I was just about to attempt using an insulated aligator clip on the charger connector pin but I suspect it wouldn't actually tell me much. Does anyone have answers to what must be a know state i.e., as previously described? I think I might need a new charger

[Bikemad]

Does your charger have a voltage selection switch?
If you cannot see an obvious switch on the outside of your charger, it is probably an auto select type, so there's nothing to adjust.
If your charger has a voltage selection switch, make sure it is set to your correct mains voltage (230 Volts for Australia), if it was set to 115V it could well have been damaged.

Are you able to check any voltage, the one out of the battery and/or the charger(be carefull with the charger as the pos and neg can't touch eachother while plugged in)

Just to give you some idea of the expected voltage, a fully charged 36V lithium battery pack should be somewhere around 42 Volts (the charger output voltage should be a little bit higher than this).

I read as much as I could find about the charging process and this suggests 4 hours should give a full charge? Could you please advise?

If you have a 4 Amp charger it would require a minimum of 4 hours to charge a completely exhausted pack (a 2 Amp charger would need at least 8 hours) but it's better if it can be left on charge longer if possible, as it allows the voltages of the individual cells within the battery to become more evenly balanced.

Forget the earlier regen suggestion as regen doesn't work with minimotors.

Regarding the battery gauge, did all three LEDs light up before you first used the battery?

Alan
 

[Onetom2]

Please excuse me if I am making a mess of this posting and quoting but I am learning the ropes here.

Does your charger have a voltage selection switch?
If you cannot see an obvious switch on the outside of your charger, it is probably an auto select type, so there's nothing to adjust.
If your charger has a voltage selection switch, make sure it is set to your correct mains voltage (230 Volts for Australia), if it was set to 115V it could well have been damaged.

The charger model SSLC084V42 is variable input.

Are you able to check any voltage, the one out of the battery and/or the charger(be carefull with the charger as the pos and neg can't touch eachother while plugged in)

Just to give you some idea of the expected voltage, a fully charged 36V lithium battery pack should be somewhere around 42 Volts (the charger output voltage should be a little bit higher than this).

The battery voltage is presently 32.6V. The charger clicking & flashing ran for a full 3 minutes before stopping, with no leds lit.

I read as much as I could find about the charging process and this suggests 4 hours should give a full charge? Could you please advise?

If you have a 4 Amp charger it would require a minimum of 4 hours to charge a completely exhausted pack (a 2 Amp charger would need at least 8 hours) but it's better if it can be left on charge longer if possible, as it allows the voltages of the individual cells within the battery to become more evenly balanced.

I estimated the 8-10 hour charging would be appropriate using the 1.8amp charger.

Forget the earlier regen suggestion as regen doesn't work with minimotors.

I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

Regarding the battery gauge, did all three LEDs light up before you first used the battery?

YES! All three LED's lit prior to use.
Presently only red and yellow leds are lit
Returning from the 'maiden voyage' a leisurely cruise along the banks of a creek (proper concrete paved pathway) I plugged in the charger. This was the first experience of about 30 seconds of clicking and red led flashing. The duration time varies from connect to connect.

Alan
 

[Bikemad]

Tom, I suggest you email the other Tom (zhourenli@goldenmotor.com) and explain your problem as simply as possible and see what he recommends.

Your battery voltage is obviously very low and does not appear to be charging at all. This could be down to a faulty charger, bad wiring connection or even a problem with the battery's internal BMS.

Tom (from GM) will hopefully tell you where the fault lies and provide a solution for you.



Alan
 

[Leslie]

Check the polarity of the charger output and the charger battery input.

I have one charger that this happens to if it's reversed polarity.  This is a safety function in my charger for short circuits and or reverse polarity,

The drain goes to max over a resistor and this resistor sets the warning light off and attempts to switch the charger off at the output.

I can not be sure as my charger is different.  But it behaves the same way with short circuits and reverse polarity.


A couple of years back here in GM forums testing polarity was kind of "the always to do thing" before we connect any charger up to a pack.

Make sure the voltmeter tester has the right color probes in the right color holes.  This was one of my mistakes way back when.

[Onetom2]

I have checked polarity of both battery and charger. Interestingly, having connected an insulated alligator clip to the positive on the male connector (Charger output plug) reducing the possibility of an accidental slip and short, then connecting my DMM probes, the charger green indicator came 'on' for the first time. I read 41.7Volts coming from the charger and having removed my clips plugged the charger back into the battery and switched on the power. Once again the red led began flashing accompanied by the audio clicking. This ceased after a approximately 3 minutes.
I have written to Tom with my briefest explanation of symptoms.
In my desperation to find answers I surveyed many forums and was dismayed at some of those basic errors you mention. I only have a very rudimentary understanding of electronics and love to dabble, but I am extremely cautious with a device such as this with advanced circuitry and expensive battery pack.

[Leslie]

I have checked polarity of both battery and charger. Interestingly, having connected an insulated alligator clip to the positive on the male connector (Charger output plug) reducing the possibility of an accidental slip and short, then connecting my DMM probes, the charger green indicator came 'on' for the first time. I read 41.7Volts coming from the charger and having removed my clips plugged the charger back into the battery and switched on the power. Once again the red led began flashing accompanied by the audio clicking. This ceased after a approximately 3 minutes.
I have written to Tom with my briefest explanation of symptoms.
In my desperation to find answers I surveyed many forums and was dismayed at some of those basic errors you mention. I only have a very rudimentary understanding of electronics and love to dabble, but I am extremely cautious with a device such as this with advanced circuitry and expensive battery pack.

What? It went into bulk charge mode testing the voltage?

It isnt a good idea to keep repeating the error for three minutes.  If it doesnt work unplug immediately.

Another error mode is if you were to plug a the wrong voltage charger the into voltage wrong battery

41.7 (42v) volts is bulk mode charge rate for a 36v pack.

What is your pack voltage sitting at?

Do you have some 12v SLA's handy?

I would like to see your BMS and how many B wires connections it has, and if you dare take a look at the cell voltages.

The voltages on the pack are getting lower with the charger plugged in malfunctioning?  You say the red led appeared on throttle after 6 hours of error charging?

Is this right^^^

You need to get it looked at or return it ASAP.

[Bikemad]

41.7 (42v) volts is bulk mode charge rate for a 36v pack.

What is your pack voltage sitting at?

Do you have some 12v SLA's handy?

I would like to see your BMS and how many B wires connections it has, and if you dare take a look at the cell voltages.

41.7V will be the final float/trickle charge voltage which keeps the pack fully charged (Each of the cells should stabilise at ~4.2V).

These chargers usually works on a two stage principle:
Stage 1 Constant current
During this stage, current is supplied at a safe, continuous fixed level until the battery voltage rises to the required maximum setting.
When the maximum voltage setting is reached, the charger will automatically switch to the next stage.

Stage 2 Constant Voltage
During this stage, the current is automatically adjusted (slowly reduced) in order to keep the battery voltage at the pre-set level (usually the safe maximum voltage level).
When the charging current falls below a certain level, the green LED will light up indicating that the battery is fully charged, but it will continue to supply enough current to ensure the pack remains fully charged.

In theory it should be safe to leave the charger on continually when the battery is not being used, but I would prefer to use a plug in timer to limit this to an hour each week during storage just to play safe (and also extend the chargers life).
By doing this, the battery should always be at least 98% charged ready for immediate use, and should not deteriorate unnecessarily during the winter.

My timer also has a countdown function, so I should be able to set it for a full 10 hour charge after a long run and leave it to automatically charge and then return to the pre-set weekly charge mode, but unfortunately it seems to switch off automatically at midnight.  

Alan
 

[Onetom2]

I believe this switching of the charger once it is presented with a load is clear indication of a faulty charger. I have written to Tom at GM and await an answer. But having already spent well over a thousand dollars (AU) on this project as a pensioner the cost of posting this charger unit back and then waiting for a replacement is going to be most vexing. But first there has to be an agreement in place. There are other accessories and products I wish to purchase from GM but not at this point in time. The 'solar charging' is of great interest to me. It has taken me a very long time to reach this point unable to enjoy smooth operation because of a faulty charger. I have a short video clip showing the red LED flashing but doubt its value as an attachment (too big).

To 217537...The battery voltage is presently 32.95V The battery pack is a 36v 16ah and I do not have any spare SLA's on hand. I decided in favour of the Li-ion battery pack for all the reasons you can imagine. I note you are local with a reference to Jaycar.

[Leslie]

I believe this switching of the charger once it is presented with a load is clear indication of a faulty charger. I have written to Tom at GM and await an answer. But having already spent well over a thousand dollars (AU) on this project as a pensioner the cost of posting this charger unit back and then waiting for a replacement is going to be most vexing. But first there has to be an agreement in place. There are other accessories and products I wish to purchase from GM but not at this point in time. The 'solar charging' is of great interest to me. It has taken me a very long time to reach this point unable to enjoy smooth operation because of a faulty charger. I have a short video clip showing the red LED flashing but doubt its value as an attachment (too big).

To 217537...The battery voltage is presently 32.95V The battery pack is a 36v 16ah and I do not have any spare SLA's on hand. I decided in favour of the Li-ion battery pack for all the reasons you can imagine. I note you are local with a reference to Jaycar.

I build my own charger if I need them.  Buying is easier.

You can use a relay and resistor setup with the solar panels.  Just hook 3X12v panels in series to the pack and run a resistor and variable resistor to the switch coil and when the pack reaches 42v turn the pot very slowly until it switches off.  Reset the switch to charge and repeat and fine tune the voltage until it is perfect.

Decide your relay and post what it is and I can tell you the value resistors you need.  It will be good enough to get you going in the mean time.

32v is pretty high for a 36v pack to giving LVC.  The cells in the GM packs can be 2.4v~2.6v and there are 10 cells in the pack.  So a flat GM 36v pack can read as low as  24v~26v.  So who know what is happening.  You could have a 48v pack.



I go to dick smith too and would go to Tandy if it was local..  I also buy from Ebay...

[Onetom2]

Decide your relay and post what it is and I can tell you the value resistors you need.

Thank you for the information and offers. The solar panel rig is on my mental drawing board at the moment and the original plan had not taken into account GM's own solar set up. I will keep in mind your offer of assistance when I get around to financing that project. The Li-ion battery pack seems to require some specialised treatment and so I am treading carefully. cheers