Much More Powerful Pie Now!!!

[o00scorpion00o]

Yes Much to do indeed!

I could use the old silver 12 fet 35 amp controller and have no regen. But I really do need the braking power as I had to remove my rear disc and calliper because of the way the rear drop out on the Derailleur side is a strange shape, The torque arm had to go on the inside and so the wheel is not centre any more.

I also like cruise, damn I did like those magic controllers! Please GM start offering a selection of controllers with different current ratings.

I now have to look for a different supplier simply because GM don't offer ANYTHING to supply my requirements.

[Leslie]

Ohh I just found this right at the bottom of the page DIY-ebikekit..  I forgot about these.



http://goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/DIY-ebikekit.php

Look right down the bottom.

GM still have the black REGEN controllers for sale.

Regen Controller Wiring Diagram (.pdf)

# Regenerative braking (Find How It Works)
# Over-heat protection
# Over-current protection
# Support forward and reverse
# Motor phases auto-detection and self calibration (Instructions)
# Enable and disable regenerative braking feature by a switch
# Programmable for cut-off current, cut-off low voltage, accelerating/decelerating rate
# Dimensions: 155 x 95 x 45mm

Be sure to ask about the program setting ability,

Im pretty sure these have the variable regen at the throttle  but they don't freewheel with it enabled.  You can balance the throttle to simulate freewheel.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Leslie,

that was the controller I had with my first kit from conhismotor. It was around a 18 amp max controller. And I didn't have it long as it fried. The regen was a total pain. Variable regen off the throttle is not a good idea in my opinion, the lack of free wheeling is uncomfortable. Anyway it was not a good controller. In my Opinion!

So the search begins.

[Leslie]

I had one of the earlier GM throttle regen controllers last me a year.  You gotta make sure your battery leads are short and your phase wires are longer.  I got very used to the throttle regen and it was very good to have this controll with heavy loads.

The last silver regen controller I had was destroyed by a hall sensor blowing. Too much fighting between the fets.  These black controllers used the resistors off the diodes.


The controller you had was 18 amps again a shunt installed but I think they have much more potential for currrent than the magic controller.  these would probably work better with A123 cells or Lipo as the regen at high rpm could get high volatges betwwen the shunt and the fets the reason why short battery leads and a 40 amp shunt with some higher than 5C recharge cells would make it more plausable.  

They didnt like bad battery connections with regen enabled.  The smallest loss of contact to the pack and it was over.  I loved the regen off the throttle but I wished it could be implemeted off the brake switch.  Both variable and and brake activated regen would be awesome.

It uses the IRF2807 fet rated at 58 amps continuous but 80 amps past the package. 4 per channel, meaning  that any one phase could handle 116 amps.

They can do 20 amps at 160 degrees C and 40amps at 137 C and they are very well cooled so I prolly guess you would get 50 amps easy out of these.  Even though the fets are rated overall lower than the MC fets the derating factor and heat management is much better.

Yes you will prooly find a few still working if the owners made there configuration right and diabled LVC through that damed relay inside better still remove the relay.

Hey they say LVC is controll through the program I think this controller has been changes since we used them.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Leslie.

Actually do you know what would be great? If the variable regen could be used off the throttle like this, normal twist for acceleration and forward twist for variable regen. That means you would be able to free wheel or use regen!

I think the vectrix electric scooter is set up like that? I would love a lithium vectrix 

[Leslie]

Yes I see how that could be good.

Let go of the throttle and it springs back to 0 throttle with freewheeling, a small twist in the reverse direction and you get regen, nice.  Limiting the rotational angle for regen would suit the application well as all that throttle work could become just as annoying as trying to balance acceleration and regen like one has to do with the GM black controller.  I think if the regen was just like the GM black controller but only worked when applying brakes with all freewheeling still happening unless the brake are applied would be nicer.  Or even variable regen straight off the brake lever would be OK,  you just need to adjust your v brakes off to compensate for the added braking power regen applies.

[Bikemad]

Actually do you know what would be great? If the variable regen could be used off the throttle like this, normal twist for acceleration and forward twist for variable regen. That means you would be able to free wheel or use regen!

I originally suggested this idea almost 12 months ago, but nothing ever came of it.

Yao,

I know you're all very busy at the moment, but I wanted to make some suggestions, which your technical guys at GM might want to think about:

Would it be possible to modify speed controllers (Magic Pie included) to allow variable regen?

This could be controlled either by using an additional thumb throttle to control the amount of braking, or preferably with a purpose made bi-directional (dual action or two-way) twist throttle.

It should be easy enough to accomplish using twin hall sensors and 4 wires instead of 3 and would obviously need to spring back to the mid position when released.
Simply twist backwards for throttle, or twist it forward for variable regen braking. (Or to operate reverse when you're already stopped.)

I think this would be far better than the existing "All or Nothing" regen, especially with smaller wheels when regen braking can sometimes be too much. (Or on a dual motor setup).

The cruise control could also be modified to also give a constant braked speed using variable regen braking.
If your cruise speed was set at 15mph, regen would automatically cut in if this speed was exceeded on downhill stretches, instead of simply stopping the power to the motor, which I presume is the current method. (No pun intended!)

A dual action throttle could be used for forward and reverse without the need for a separate switch, and could also allow a conventional "twist back to accelerate" action, if it is fitted on the left hand side of the handlebars. (i.e. when twist type gears are already fitted on the right)

If it is possible, it would be nice to see it incorporated.

Does anyone else think this might be a useful improvement?
I'd like to have your opinions and/or suggestions.

Alan

I still think the regen should be implemented into the cruise function, and the two buttons on the switch control unit should work on a dual role basis:
With cruise mode turned off, the green button would initially Set the cruise speed, or the red would Resume cruising at the last set cruise speed. During cruise mode, the buttons would then be used to either Increase or Decrease the cruise speed as required.
(Most car cruise control systems have this feature.)



The Resume function would be very useful to get you back to the last set cruise speed again after slowing down for junctions etc.

Alan
 

[o00scorpion00o]

A very good idea indeed Alan.

First I would like GM to start making different controllers with various outputs, (higher than 20 amp) and have a cycle analyst connector so one could increase or decrease amps without a laptop while out and about!

It would be nice if they started making controllers again in the old style casing, much easier to mount, in my opinion anyway.

[Leslie]

A very good idea indeed Alan.

First I would like GM to start making different controllers with various outputs, (higher than 20 amp) and have a cycle analyst connector so one could increase or decrease amps without a laptop while out and about!

It would be nice if they started making controllers again in the old style casing, much easier to mount, in my opinion anyway.

Oh oh oh.

The net books they got now would be awesome...

Gm have said they do speshal ordas.  I think.



LOl.  I think I remember if you can get in communication with the sales team there you can request some things to be setup on the controllers within reason.

Maybe if you want a 24v to give the full 50 amps they can do this.  That's still rated to the motors they sell.

[o00scorpion00o]

LOl.  I think I remember if you can get in communication with the sales team there you can request some things to be setup on the controllers within reason.

Maybe if you want a 24v to give the full 50 amps they can do this.  That's still rated to the motors they sell.

Full 50 amps on their 6 fet magic controller? I doubt it very much,

At the end of the day I had to take my business else where and found a new 40 amp controller with a switch, and a cycle analyst connection, I'm sorry GM (or rather I'm not ) but you left me no choice!

[Leslie]

LOl.  I think I remember if you can get in communication with the sales team there you can request some things to be setup on the controllers within reason.

Maybe if you want a 24v to give the full 50 amps they can do this.  That's still rated to the motors they sell.

Full 50 amps on their 6 fet magic controller? I doubt it very much,

At the end of the day I had to take my business else where and found a new 40 amp controller with a switch, and a cycle analyst connection, I'm sorry GM (or rather I'm not ) but you left me no choice!

I think thats how the ratings go.


Every controller can do 24 to 48v so they are all rated at 50 amps max.  Well this is what I assume.

Think about the pattern we see.  48v at 25 amps cont is 960watts. 30 amps max is 1400 watts.  Doable.

36v at 27 amps = 1000 watts cont, at 38 amps max 1400 watts max.

24v at 41 amps cont = 1000 watt cont at 50 amps max, 1200 watts max.

Every time you go up 12v, one amp = 12w.

48v*35A= 1680 watts max.  Man you must of been eating mounds of earth on the hills.

Remember the Fet can do 120 amps at 10v so 50 amps at 24v isnt too much different.


Oh and yeah you are a greedy one for performance.  

I really don't think the GM controllers are going to do what you want in the long run.  God speed.

Mind if I ask what controller you got.  Sounds awesome.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Leslie,

Wasn't the magic controller supposed to do 30 amps continuous? Mine only touched 22 amps but certainly 20 was all It could supply for any length of time!   

Yeah I got the taste for power,  I really prefer monster torque to speed. 24-27 max is really good enough, I mean what's the point of a faster setup if it slows down a lot on the hills. It ends up being just as fast or maybe faster with more torque I think?

I would love to read a review of the external Pie and BMC V3, all with the same controllers and battery, weight etc! But so far no one has done a review of them both. If someone could do a video with them climbing hills and on straights that would be great. However I'm not going to spend money on another wheel now LOL, unless someone makes me a donation 

I got the 40 amp Infineon controller from ebikes.ca and also the direct plugin cycle analyst (am I allowed to post another dealer here) ?
anyway I got the 10 watt led light and they supply a connection lead from the cycle analyst for the light, prety cool. 

I got a few andersons and some of those little connectors for the hall sensors, throttle etc, so I can match it all to my current kit.


I think the ability to adjust the current there and then will be most useful. If I want range over power etc. They told me they have cruise also. I think if you hold the throttle in any position for a few seconds, it activates cruise.

I have spent vast amounts of money on this bike, but at the end of the day it will work the way I want it to!

[Leslie]

Hi Leslie,

Wasn't the magic controller supposed to do 30 amps continuous? Mine only touched 22 amps but certainly 20 was all It could supply for any length of time!  

Yeah I got the taste for power,   I really prefer monster torque to speed. 24-27 max is really good enough, I mean what's the point of a faster setup if it slows down a lot on the hills. It ends up being just as fast or maybe faster with more torque I think?

I would love to read a review of the external Pie and BMC V3, all with the same controllers and battery, weight etc! But so far no one has done a review of them both. If someone could do a video with them climbing hills and on straights that would be great. However I'm not going to spend money on another wheel now LOL, unless someone makes me a donation  

I got the 40 amp Infineon controller from ebikes.ca and also the direct plugin cycle analyst (am I allowed to post another dealer here) ?
anyway I got the 10 watt led light and they supply a connection lead from the cycle analyst for the light, prety cool.  

I got a few andersons and some of those little connectors for the hall sensors, throttle etc, so I can match it all to my current kit.


I think the ability to adjust the current there and then will be most useful. If I want range over power etc. They told me they have cruise also. I think if you hold the throttle in any position for a few seconds, it activates cruise.

I have spent vast amounts of money on this bike, but at the end of the day it will work the way I want it to!

Yeah good stuff  I might try out the controller you got too.  

But hey Look at what I just ordered from GM Canada.



Mwahahaha. SIcK

Though I'll see if I can make my 2 MP internal controllers do the trick.  I really wont care too much about maxing current as I don't have the slow you down hills you talk of.

I hope I can get at least 20 amps continuous out of it out of the box.

[o00scorpion00o]

2 Magic Pie kits? OMG that will be heavy, Are you putting it all on the one bike?

Would you not have being better to buy the external ones? or one and use a stronger controller? Anyway you will be able to wire them for external controllers no problem!

Good luck Leslie!

Okay I better dash, have to pick My girlfriend up from the airport. Wouldn't she die if I arrived at the airport on my eike with a trailer on the back LMAO oh the thoughts. Id want a trailer full of batteries to get me the 120 miles 

[Leslie]

Two bikes or one spare.  Which ever comes first.

Nah Gary had $50USD off per Pie coupons and they were the 26" internal controllers only.  $100 off made it all possible to get two. SO I almost got the internal controllers free anyway.

I gots all that delivered to my door for $813USD.  Pretty good value I think.