Much More Powerful Pie Now!!!

[Who42]

If you realy want a good controller try the KELLY Controller its only $179 and it can't be beat for power  

2.2kw of power  , I use one to power my 2000w Gear Motor and have tried it with a Magic Pie on a test it will spin a Pie to over 1500rpm +

LInk : http://Kellycontroller.com/keb4822124v-48v100a22kw-bike-brushless-controller-regen-p-59.html
KEB48221,24V-48V,100A,2.2KW, E-bike Brushless Controller /Regen
Price:  $199.00 $179.00
Weight : 4.20 lbs
In stock

Stick Shift Throttle Firmware:  (+$29.00)  
High Speed Firmware:  (+$49.00)  
Ultra High Speed Firmware:  (+$99.00)  

KEB Electric Bicycle BLDC Motor Speed Controller
Kelly KEB48221 programmable e-bike/electric bike BLDC controller provides efficient, smooth and quite controls for electrical bike, electric motorcycle, scooter, etc. Electrical bike brushless motor controller outputs high taking off current, and strictly limit battery current. Motor speed controller can work with relative small battery, but provide good acceleration and hill climbing. BLDC motor speed controller uses high power MOSFET, PWM to achieve efficiency 99%. In most cases, Powerful microprocessor brings in comprehensive and precise control to BLDC motor controllers. This programmable brushless motor controller also allows users to set parameters, conduct tests, and obtain diagnostic information quickly and easily.

Features:
• Specially designed for electric bicycle and scooter.
• Intelligence with powerful microprocessor.
• Synchronous rectification, ultra low drop, fast PWM to achieve very high efficiency.
• Electronic reversing.
• Voltage monitoring on 3 motor phases, bus, and power supply.
• Voltage monitoring on voltage source 12V and 5V.
• Current sense on all 3 motor phases.
• Current control loop.
• Hardware over current protection.
• Hardware over voltage protection.
• Support torque mode, speed mode, and balanced mode operation.
• Configurable limit for motor current and battery current.
• Battery current limiting available, doesn’t affect taking off performance.
• More startup current ,can get more startup speed.
• Low EMC.
• LED fault code.
• Battery protection: current cutback, warning and shutdown at configurable high and low battery voltage.
• Rugged aluminum housing for maximum heat dissipation and harsh environment.
• Rugged high current terminals, and rugged aviation connectors for small signal.
• Thermal protection: current cut back, warning and shutdown on high temperature.
• Configurable 60 degree or 120 degree hall position sensors.
• Support motors with any number of poles.
• Up to 40,000 electric RPM standard. Optional high speed 70,000 ERPM, and ultra high speed 100,000 ERPM. (Electric RPM = mechanical RPM * motor pole pairs).
• Brake switch is used to start regen.
• 0-5V brake signal is used to command regen current.
• Support three modes of regenerative braking: brake switch regen, release throttle regen,0-5V analog signal variable regen.
• Configurable high pedal protection: Disable operation if power up with high throttle.
• Current multiplication: Take less current from battery, output more current to motor.
• Easy installation: 3-wire potentiometer will work.
• Current meter output.
• Standard PC/Laptop computer to do programming. No special tools needed.
• User program provided. Easy to use. No cost to customers.

General Specifications:
•Frequency of Operation: 16.6kHz.
•Standby Battery Current: < 0.5mA.
•5V Sensor Supply Current: 40mA.
•Controller supply voltage range, PWR, 18V to 90V.
•Supply Current, PWR, 150mA.
•Configurable battery voltage range, B+. Max operating range: 18V to 60V.
•Analog Brake and Throttle Input: 0-5 Volts. Producing 0-5V signal with 3-wire pot.
•Full Power Operating Temperature Range: 0? to 50? (controller case temperature).
•Operating Temperature Range: -30? to 90?, 100? shutdown (controller case temperature).
•Peak Phase Current, 30 seconds: 100A.
•Continuous Phase Current Limit: 50A.
•Maximum Battery Current: Configurable

Optional Features:
Optional Waterproof: The price is 38 U.S. dollars.
Optional Stick Shift Throttle Firmware: The price is 29 U.S. dollars.
Optional High Speed to 70,000ERPM: The price is 49 U.S. dollars.
Optional Ultra High Speed to 100,000ERPM: The price is 99 U.S. dollars.

[DirtyGinge]

Erm, feature rich for sure ...nice controller.....pricing a bit on the high side though, and will need uber batteries, but never mind, cant top the feature set

[JS]

Aren't Lyen-modded Infineons even better?

For my next motor I'm thinking of 3 choices:
- Mac
- Crystalyte HT
- HPC Striker

Very interested in HPC, which is most expensive but seems to be able to handle lots of power. I need a motor which I know can handle anything I throw at it.

My Pie is working again. BMS is hanging on the garage wall 
Had to bring the amps down to 20A peak 10A continuous before there was any noticeable drop in power.

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Js

erm, here's my thoughts

crystalyte, great motor, handles lots and lots of volts, but big and heavy with no freewheel

mac, great motor, with freewheel, and I can order any spare part I want for delivery in about 10 days ( proven, ordered clutch, gears, axle), but moving parts, not DD so will be some wear over large mileage......i paid 50 dollars for a clutch and gears ( new unbreakable ones) so they are amazing value, geared motor at DD pricing

Dont know anything about the HPC, endless sphere chaps use mostly bmc, mac, crystalyte and nine continent, lots of members, lots of votes, so I guess you need to figure out the requirement feature set for your style of riding, then pick a motor to suit you..

i have 2, a Magic Pie for heavy duty grunt, cross country, bad weather etc, then the mac for finess, road cycling to work, then electric home etc....1000 miles on the mac, nearly 4000 on the pie

I have lyen controllers, great power, cooler...not probably as feature rich as the Kelly, but nearly 100 dollars cheaper at the 12 fet range, perfect for me....works on both motors a treat

[JS]

By Crystalyte's lack of freewheel you mean it will resist pedaling a lot more than a MP for example? Isn't it similar construction to MP?
Also, the new HS/HT-versions weigh 5.5kg, which is less than MP. You were probably refering to bomb-proof (and heavy) 5303?

So many choices... perhaps it would be good to wait until spring 

[DirtyGinge]

they are direct drive so will have maybe similar drag to pie .....not a true freewheel....but the mac and the goldenmotor mini have true freewheel with no drag at all...i think the mac is 3kgs....


my way to decide which motor I would buy would involve first these type of questions


how powerful must the motor be  ( get me to work and home with 50% work, 25% work, 100% work on my part etc)
what kind of cycling will the motor do ( leisure cycle, relaxing, or must I get to work as fast as I possibly can)
how powerful must the battery be to drive it
how much does it cost
how reliable must the motor be
how many spares must I carry on hand
how obtainable are all spares, time cost etc..


these sort of function defines form questions should lead you in the right direction...

but the pie you have with a lyen will certainly be very close to a good crystalite 5306 or 5307 etc,,,great power but not 30-40mph...

[o00scorpion00o]

Aren't Lyen-modded Infineons even better?

For my next motor I'm thinking of 3 choices:
- Mac
- Crystalyte HT
- HPC Striker

Very interested in HPC, which is most expensive but seems to be able to handle lots of power. I need a motor which I know can handle anything I throw at it.

My Pie is working again. BMS is hanging on the garage wall 
Had to bring the amps down to 20A peak 10A continuous before there was any noticeable drop in power.

Hi JS,

If I were you I would keep the pie, rip out the internal controller and wire it up with some 12G alpha wire eco!

One Guy over at Endless Sphere is running his at 84 volts on LiPo batteries and he gets 40+ mph and is very happy with it's power, it would fly on 24S lipo, that's 88.8 volts nominal or 99.6 hot off the charger charging to 4.15 volts per cell!

One obvious advantage of LiPo is the fact you can pull very high currents from a small 10ah pack and you don't need a veery large 30+ ah pack. You could of course go with A123 for absolute safety and it's easier to charge with the bms, but it will cost 2 times or more a lipo pack, only think with a lipo set up is chargers are expensive, the Ichargers are good!

If you want to pedal then a mac is really good and it will do 31 mph on 12S lipo 12fet infineon controller, with controller set to 120% speed!

Obvious disadvantages with the geared, they do eventually wear out, can't off road, and the motors get hot,

SO the pie was an expensive motor so I would keep it and volt it up and it's got massive torque, Not as good as the mac of course for the same voltage but I bet it's a beast on 80-90 volts!

Lyen can make you a controller and I believe the pie works very good sensorless, but you need to look up the ES forum, I forget the guys name that is using his sensorless and at 84 volts! It would save you having to runn hall wires, you just need to have it moving a little for it to kick in!

You also need him to set the regen for the battery you are going to use and also you need him to set the controller to work with regen on higher voltages above 72 volts!


Mark

[Who42]

Why do you guy"s keep on about the 12fet infineon controller
The Kelly 2.2 kw Controller is about the same price and absolutely leaves the 12fet infineon controller for dead.  The Kelly 2.2 kw Controller  works from 18V to 90V upto 100amps and can spin a Magic Pie to over 5000rpm if you want it to , 10 times the speed of a Cruise Controller can and its entirely programmable with soft ware that comes with it LOL

LInk : http://Kellycontroller.com/keb4822124v-48v100a22kw-bike-brushless-controller-regen-p-59.html

[DirtyGinge]

well its 50-100 dollars more expensive so not exactly the same price .......

Truth is, im sure the Kellycontroller is much more programmable, and probably better....but for me, a cheaper upgrade using top quality components was a great upgrade from the pie controller...simple, powerful, cheap, extreme reliability, amazing customer service, 5 day shipping from order.....cellmans 12 fet is 79 dollars......hence why myself and mark rave about it........


Dont get me wrong, not knocking what you are saying by any means....just 2 ends of a spectrum, thats all

I would love to try the Kelly controller, but I think the programmability will be a novelty for me, which might not add up to the extra price

so RPM wise, real road, what speed can the Kelly take a 26" pie to ?

p.s...mark, the new cellman infineon has a new push button cruise........

[Who42]

Yes The Kelly 2.2 kw Controller  supports cruise button 
so RPM wise, real road, what speed can the Kelly take a 26" pie to ? When I tried it with two 48v 10amp batteries in paralell it did over 45mph before the BMS cut the power LOL it felt very strong and it moved my make shift touque lever so I was not game to push it further

[o00scorpion00o]

Why do you guy"s keep on about the 12fet infineon controller
The Kelly 2.2 kw Controller is about the same price and absolutely leaves the 12fet infineon controller for dead.  The Kelly 2.2 kw Controller  works from 18V to 90V upto 100amps and can spin a Magic Pie to over 5000rpm if you want it to , 10 times the speed of a Cruise Controller can and its entirely programmable with soft ware that comes with it LOL

LInk : http://Kellycontroller.com/keb4822124v-48v100a22kw-bike-brushless-controller-regen-p-59.html

Yep it's more expensive, and I see from the ling you sent me the configurable battery is 18-60 volts and supply up to 90? I don't really understand that.

Anyway neither do I understand what you mean by it can spin the pie at 5000 rpm? Surely a voltage of 48-52 volts will mean 24 mph and 85 = 40 mph, I understand higher voltage = speed and current torque!


Mark

[o00scorpion00o]

p.s...mark, the new cellman infineon has a new push button cruise........

Hi Ginge, how are you, you having fun with your mac? I love it lol it's addictive on 16S lipo! 

Yeah I know cruise is an option, but I've no e-brake leavers to cut the motor, I do have a kill switch, however with hydraulic brakes I can't use  them and in an emergency, I would rather not have cruise, too dangerous on a high power set up! 

I do pedal a lot and over the course of 3 days I cycled 53 miles and only used 5ah of my 10ah pack so in reality a 10ah pack can take you 100 miles, if you are prepared to pedal. But it's amazing how much you could squeeze from such a small pack!

The 3 speed switch works really good too because I can turn it to low in traffic without it taking off really hard, it's much more smooth in slow traffic or when you want to give friends or family members a spin without risking their lives. I just warn them not to touch the switch lol, but of course my brother switched it to high and he opened it up on the way home, the look on his face was really cool. 

This is an expensive but really thrilling hobby, In the future I want to build a higher power setup on a good downhill bike for rough terrain. It's just a real shame the weather is sh!t here it makes such a difference when the sun decides to shine.

Another thing I would love is cycle tracks, most of the land in Ireland is farm land and it's the most deforested land in the whole of  Europe! We have no access to most of the land and farmers are very hostile and they have this major thing about people on their land they would almost shoot you for being on it. There has been much blood spilled over this land because of land, sad really! Anyway  That's why I love Germany so much, when I was in my Girlfriends parents house in the south a few weeks ago I could go out their driveway and decide which cycle path through the forest I want to take today, In Ireland you are thinking which road is less dangerous today! If you call them roads, the speed of cars on tiny twisty bad quality roads is scary!

LOL rant over


Mark

[DirtyGinge]

Hi Mark

I know what you mean, I nearly got shot in Thurles a few years back......

As to the brake levers, stick a push to break microswitch on the main brake body, and a bit of metal on the handle ( small tube that touches the microswitch when brake is in normal position), and voila, you have your e-brakes....I got my shimano deore intergrated's setup for ebraking using this method...

for the higher power setup for cross country, maybe you could re-upgrade back to a pie ?

Its simple for me...2 bikes...1 mac for light carefree cycling, 1 pie for all out motorbike cross country or not

p.s.....to all, Ive moved away from aluminium frames totally now, this is indeed just a dangerous metal full stop...when it fatigues, it just powders with no warning....not something im putting my fat a"£$ on anymore

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Ginge,

Yep that's a good idea alright! 

I remember seeing on a German E-Bike site, hydraulic E-Brake levers, I forgot to bookmark it and can't find it now! 

It's a pity they don't make suitable steel bike frames, you still see steel on some cheap mountain bikes but they are crap!

Yeah I will play around with Pat's pie when he gets his Mac, But I want to get a good second hand downhill bike, they are very expensive and I won't be getting it for a long time now as I spent way too much on this build! But Downhill bikes are the way to go for high power!

What we need for us power hungry bikers is someone to make good frames that you can mount the batteries easily and are a bit tougher than normal bikes. Some that are maybe a bit lower to the ground for stability.

I went out today and I couldn't help notice how cold the wind is, and so many trees turning brown now is really unusual for this time of year! I wonder what kind of a winter is on way after this cool summer?

I got my charger from evessemble. It doesn't work lol, I think they have the voltage set too low and it thinks the battery is charged, I'm in the process of finding out how to adjust it. It will make charging very easy if I get it working!

Mark

[DirtyGinge]

Hi mark
the steel frames are out there but tend to be a little rich....
I git two. one is a sanderson life I got for 200 and the other is a fireeye bloodshot.110 at chainreaction cycles....bargains

both are brilliant frames...both 4130 cromoly...the sanderson is reynolds 853 tubing. they really do smooth out the bumps too