BLDC Motor Phasing 60 deg or 120 deg ??? whats the difference ??

[Who42]

  BLDC Motor Phasing

The top photo is of a Golden Motor Magic Pie Hall Sensors, these are 120 deg phasing

The bottom photo is of a different  BLDC Motor by another company, can anyone tell me if this is also 120 deg phasing for the Hall Sensors

As I want to use a Cruise controller but it beeps twice letting me know the Hall Sensors have failed,
this is possible because from new this Hub Motor never worked I can replace the Hall Sensors and I have checked out all the wires they are all intact and working from the outside plugs to inside of the motor tested them with volt meter so it just looks like the Hall Sensors have failed

I will use the little tester circuits (see Pics ) to test them

[Who42]

Sensor Phasing Comparison
There are four conventions used to establish the relative
phasing of the sensor signals in three phase motors. With six
step drive, an input signal change must occur every 60
electrical degrees, however, the relative signal phasing is
dependent upon the mechanical sensor placement. A
comparison of the conventions in electrical degrees is shown
in Figure 38. From the sensor phasing table (Figure 39), note
that the order of input codes for 60° phasing is the reverse of
300°. This means the MC33033, when the 60°/120° select
(Pin 18) and the FWD/REV (Pin 3) both in the high state
(open), is configured to operate a 60° sensor phasing motor
in the forward direction. Under the same conditions a 300°
sensor phasing motor would operate equally well but in the
reverse direction. One would simply have to reverse the
FWD/REV switch (FWD/REV closed) in order to cause the
300° motor to also operate in the same direction. The same
difference exists between the 120° and 240° conventions.
Figure 38. Sensor Phasing Comparison
Rotor Electrical Position (Degrees)
300°
240°
0 60 120 180 240 300 360 420 480 540 600 660 720

[Leslie]

The best way to dived 360^o into 3 phases maybe.  You can only divide it so many times and rearrange it so many times and then it gets pointless.  Keep it simple.


If you think thats confusing.

Here is a pic I drew of how the HBS poles are wound.



51 slots . wound for a 46 NSNS magnet rim. 17 slots per phase.

Notice some slot poles (electro poles) are longer than others. Five per phase, then you have 46 magnets (permanent poles)


Some way they match above where the phase switching meets in A or B or C relate to hall placement. And when A fires N, Then B fires S and so on.

From what I can gather this design was thought of to take away most of the cogging a magnet would create passing iron cores.  Quite Smart really.

[Who42]

This photo is of a different BLDC Motor by another company , can any tell me if this is also 120 deg phasing for the Hall Sensors or  60deg

[Bikemad]

From your picture, the motor appears to have 48 magnets, 53 slots, 36 spokes (laced radially) and hall sensors spaced ~10.2° apart. Unfortunately I don't know whether it's 60° or 120° phase angle, but my guess would be 120°.

Alan
 

[Who42]

Hi Alan
Thanks for the info  

helpfully I can change the Hall Sensors and I'll have another electric bike on the road

As I want to use a Cruise controller but it beeps twice letting me know the Hall Sensors have failed,
this is possible because from new this HUB MOTOR never worked I can replace the Hall Sensors and I have checked out all the wires they are all intact and working from the outside plugs to inside of the motor tested them with volt meter so it just looks like the Hall Sensors have failed  

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Thanks Mark

[Leslie]

From your picture, the motor appears to have 48 magnets, 53 slots, 36 spokes (laced radially) and hall sensors spaced ~10.2° apart. Unfortunately I don't know whether it's 60° or 120° phase angle, but my guess would be 120°.

Alan
 

Thais the same as the Magic Pie isnt it?.

As for the motor.

Either two are on or two are off

GB on and Y off

Or

GB off and Y on.

Respective of the NS NS magnet polarity orientation due to motor position.

I think TDC over each magnet is 180deg. If you were to extend the centre of blue hall over 12/36 part of the magnet the centre of the yellow hall would be on the cusp of NS.

I bet 120 deg too.

[Bikemad]

This the same as the Magic Pie isnt it?.

No, they're different, the Magic Pie has 56 Magnets and 63 Slots and ~17.14° sensor spacing.

Alan
 

[Who42]

This photo may help clear things up

The  BLDC Motor is made by High Power its well made very neat but it never worked even with the controller it came with, after testing I found the  Hall Sensors have failed  

I got ripped off buy  Electric Transport Australia  it was clearly second hand when I got it  
Link:            http://www.electrictransportaustralia.com.au

[Leslie]

This the same as the Magic Pie isnt it?.

No, they're different, the Magic Pie has 56 Magnets and 63 Slots and ~17.14° sensor spacing.

Alan
 

I get this on the powercroc.de calculator.

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[Leslie]

This photo may help clear things up

Thats the same as mine a 51S 46P.

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[Bikemad]

I thought this link might be useful:
Jeremy's article on How to Replace a Hall-effect Sensor on Instructables.

From your picture, the motor appears to have 48 magnets, 53 slots, 36 spokes (laced radially) and hall sensors spaced ~10.2° apart.

Thats the same as mine a 51S 46P.

I was close, but not close enough.

I blame the photo, it must have been stretched sideways slightly, just enough to throw my CAD package off the scent.

I still can't believe that the angles I obtained seemed to fit so well for both the magnets and the slots, yet they were obviously out by around 4%.

Alan
 

[Bikemad]

I got ripped off buy  Electric Transport Australia  it was clearly second hand when I got it  
Link:            http://www.electrictransportaustralia.com.au

I just had a quick look and couldn't believe how compact their sealed lead acid batteries are:

Battery Type   Sealed Lead Acid
Voltage   12     (can be supplied with wires to create 24v,36v,48v etc)
Amp Hours   12
Weight   4.2kgs
Dimensions   150mm x 9mm x 10mm
Cycle Rating   300 +
Terminal Type   Screw in
Uses   E-bikes, Golf buggies, Computers, Motorbikes, Alarms, etc

If this was correct, you could simply slide them down the seat tube into the frame out of sight!

Alan
 

[GM Brazil]

Alan, those dimensions are not correct,

But we have this type:


These are 45mm diameter and 72mm in length

But you will need 24 of them to have 48v