Author Topic: Steel hanger slot warning  (Read 10750 times)

Offline myelectricbike

  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 644
    • How to Build an Electric Bike
Steel hanger slot warning
« on: September 17, 2007, 05:26:40 PM »
When I went to check the tightness of my axle nuts this morning I noticed that the breaks appeared to be too tight. Turns out it was the axle turning in the steel hanger slots which had opened up enough to let the axle turn. The braking was from the wiring being pulled inside the hub and possible from a short corrosion inside the hub that will now have to be fixed. Good thing I caught it before heading out onto the road. Appears that even steel hangers can not be trusted and that axle nuts do not automatically stay tight.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 01:59:30 PM by myelectricbike »

Offline Dave

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 113
    • davintosh
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2007, 01:06:30 AM »
When I went to check the tightness of my axle nuts this morning I notice that the breaks appeared to be to tight. Turns out it was the axle turning in the steel hanger slots which had opened up enough to let the axle turn. The braking was from the wiring being pulled inside the hub and possible from a short that will now have to be fixed. Good thing I caught it before hearing out onto the road. Appears not that even steel hangers can not be trusted and that axle nuts do not automatically stay tight.

Bummer. Time for a torque arm?

Offline Mel in HI

  • Confirmed
  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2007, 01:26:09 AM »
So what you are saying is that the torque of the motor spread the hanger slots allowing the axle to turn while the nuts were still tight?  Wouldn't the friction of the nuts prevent such a thing?  I guess I am not understanding.

Offline mustangman

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2007, 02:15:05 AM »
 These motors put out such high torque, it is not uncommon to spread dropouts and spin the wheel in the fork!!  :o

Offline myelectricbike

  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 644
    • How to Build an Electric Bike
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 03:20:55 AM »
What I am saying is that as I was rolling the bike into position to mount the battery pack I notice the wheel was hard to turn and would not move at all in the reverse direction. I thought it was the brake but when I loosened the brake I could see that it was something else so I checked the tightness of the axle nuts with my fingers. They were to tight to turn with my fingers but then I saw the axle move slightly and as I continued to role the wheel I could see it turn completely around although it would catch and only the wheel would turn as if the cable could not be pulled any further in. When I put a 12" adjustable wrench to them it took about three full turns before they were tight enough to keep the axle from turning in the slot. Since the slots were already spread apart I decided not to use the bike. The bike still runs but if I stop and try to push it then for about 20 degrees of each turn of the wheel the phase power leads appear to be shorted. How the motor will still run is a mystery to me so I am in the process of dismounting the wheel and opening the hub cover to see what's going on. A picture of the dropouts is now posted above.

Offline mustangman

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2007, 05:00:21 AM »
Wow, the dropouts are spread open a bit. Maybe its the picture or cracked paint, but the fork might suffer metal fatigue and have a micro crack starting on the dropout closest to the veiwer.

Offline myelectricbike

  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 644
    • How to Build an Electric Bike
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2007, 05:24:50 AM »
I have plans to beef it up quit a bit inline with the torque arm idea and to add a nynut to lock the axle nut once it is tightened or to use safety lock wire or something like that to keep the nut from backing up.

Here is what I found under the cover. I try to avoid puddles but what you see may be the result of hitting one or two that were less that an inch deep and less than two feet across. The magnets are most susceptible since that is why they are plated. Once the corrosion (aluminum oxide) and rust (iron oxide) get built up they can fill the air gap between the stator teeth and the rotor magnets. This is what was causing the wheel to put so much pressure on the axle that it wedged the hanger slots apart. At speed its hard to feel but from dead stop you sometimes can not even turn the wheel without an extraordinary amount of force.

The sensors still work and the wiring does not appear to be shorted but the jacket is stiff which is typical of too much heat. Also the high temp (380f/193c) hot melt glue I used to insulate the sensors has melted in runs typical of what you would expect after the motor was stopped and air was no longer cooling.   

However, there is another possibility that I should probably mention. That possibility is a warped rotor or maybe even a warped stator.

...a good cleaning is next followed by some anti-corrosion measures.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 10:18:22 AM by myelectricbike »

Offline mustangman

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2007, 03:12:33 AM »
On re-assembley can you use some high heat silicone around the cover seal to prevent moisture from entering the motor. Also you live in a humid area of the U.S. could a desicant be put inside the motor to help corrosion. I hope nothing is permanently damaged!  ;D

Offline myelectricbike

  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 644
    • How to Build an Electric Bike
Re: Steel hanger slot warning
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2007, 06:36:05 AM »
A descant might help. When a motor cools it sucks moisture ladened air back in. Sealing it might be possible but providing vents might be the best thing instead. It would certainly help if the factory urethaned or polyimided all the parts inside. Some phosphoric acid will clean it up. I just have to be careful to dab and not to spill it.