Ordered my Magic pie KIT 17-11-2009 Netherlands

[Jazzjerry]

I will wait and see what it looks like when it is respoked propperly.

Maybe this will be sufficiënt for centering the rim again.


16 Jan 2010
Here is some more photo's of my project.

Today I fitted the battery rack. (Yes the one that was bend) Just hope it wont snap of completely one day.


2 pieces of mettal that came with the rack where made to size.


Fitted the rack and the 2 metal things that came with it. Drilled some holes for the nuts. There where metric M5 threads already in my frame that I used.


Next I fitted the back tire just to see how the bike looks.....


From the back.


Last thing I did today was chop up the plastic mudgard to make it fit under the battery.


Drilled some holes in the batterrack and mudgard, Fixxed it with some tywraps.

[Jazzjerry]

Today I got some more stuff in I ordered from the web.

Some wire for the lights, (was not shipped with the pie and lights I ordered)
And an electronics enclosure.


This is the electronics box in which I have planned all the ends to meet. Here you can see the shunt resistor form the cycle analyst plugged in the main power cables.
The rest of the wiring will follow.


This is where I will mount the box.


Soldering my backlight. Put a knot in the cable to prevent it from being pulled out the lamp.


Soldered


Finished


Soldered the front light.


Finished

[Bikemad]

JJ,

Double check your light wiring, as you appear to have the red wire as ground on the front light, and Live on the rear.
This will cause a short circuit through the frame of the bike when turned on, if both red wires are connect to Live. (Battery +)

Alan
 

[Jazzjerry]

Well I have thought this through a number of times........ If you look carefully both bikes have a wire connected and grounded with their bolts to the frame. This is interesting. I thought that this would be - ?

So this means that the center pole of both lamps would be -

So I wired it up accordingly.

Please help me on this one.

Regards Jeroen

[Bikemad]

If you look at this lighting diagram it shows the correct polarity of the lights:


It's difficult to see from your photo where the red lead is connected on the front light.
After turning up my brightness on the monitor and having another close look, it looks like the red lead is actually soldered to the spade terminal, which is fine, if it were connected to the bracket fixing it would be wrong.

Sorry if I gave you a heart attack, but I was concerned about what I was seeing.

Looks like it's my mistake not yours.

Alan
 

[Jazzjerry]

Thanks Allan,

Dont worry, I was gonna throw in the fuse as well, So hopefully only that would have melted. Better to be safe then sorry and I am glad you replied to my post anyway. Now I know you had a good look into it as well and agree. 2 know more then 1.... 

I just completely took appart my 120$ worth cycle analyst. I am trying to find out how to add a switch that will overide the throttle signal to make the bike streetlegal in Holland. So when I see cops.......... QUICKLY NOW JERRY FLIP THE SWITCH........ SAVE YOURSELF.... And the pie will only go 25 kph when they test it.

Anybody else done this before in this forum?

Regards,

JJ

[Hardcore]

i use cruise to go 0.00001km/h when cops are pulling me over, but I don't have pas. they don't know what this bike is capable of or what you're doing withit as only a few people have something powerfull like this. also they can't test the power without special equipment, the NE doesn't have them asfar as I know

[Gapy]

It should be easy to hack a throttle with resistor/potentiometer, so that the full throttle would only do half the speed or so... And when you need full speed, just bypass it... It should be simple, but I havent tried it....

[Bikemad]

Jerry,

This should do the job nicely:



I'm sure you'll find room for a 5K Sub-Miniature Fully Enclosed Carbon Preset Potentiometer like this in your connection box:



And once you have adjusted it to give the required maximum speed, it can be taped up or enclosed within heat shrink tube etc.

I still haven't got around to testing it myself, but Gianfranco has tested it and apparently it does work as expected.

Thank you Alan, I installed the Sub-Miniature Fully Enclosed Carbon Preset Potentiometer and now it works perfectly 

Alan

[Jazzjerry]

I know the cycle analyst also has this function.......

So I am going to try and use the analyst. The other option however with the Preset Potentiometer looks realy good and simple though. If I hadn'bought the cycle analyst I would have gone for that option deffinetly. I think the problem with this solution however is that you will loose torque because you cant use the full voltage available from the throttle when you flipp the switch. With the cycle analyst though the voltage is only limmited when you go past a specific speed....... Then the variable voltage limmiter kicks in and guides you to the needed throttle voltage to make you go lets say 25kph.....

So this way you start of with full throttle in the beginning and only end up with lower voltage when you go past the speed that you have entered in the cycle analyst as the max speed you want to go.

I want this function to work with a micro switch. So I want to beable to either send the throttle voltage directly to the controller / or flip the switch and send the throttle voltage through the cycle analyst with a preset limmiting speed.

So just the switch will be needed to go either maxed out or limmited through the cycle analyst.

But I will try and show you what I have got sofar........

This is what I can read in the cycle analyst guide about limmiting functions that can be used.

7. Using the Limiting Features

There are many situations when it is desirable to limit the amount of
power that the controller is able to draw from the battery pack. For
instance, you might want a current limit in order to:

A) Protect the cells in a battery pack from delivering more than their
rated amperage

B) Extend the range of your vehicle by reducing current draw during
acceleration and hill climbing
C) Safely cycle at low current a NiMH or NiCad pack that has been
sitting unused for a long period

D) Keep the motor's power within a legally stipulated power limit

A speed limit can help make any electric bicycle abide by the legal
speed caps that exist in most jurisdictions while not affecting
performance below that speed. It can also be useful for extending the
range or for taming a setup that is otherwise too fast for comfort,
without sacrificing hill climbing torque.
The voltage limit is used primarily to prevent the battery pack from
being over discharged which can be damaging to the cells. Typically,
you would set it between 29 to 31V for a 36V pack, and between 39 to41V for a 48V pack.

7.1 How the feedback works

To understand how the limiting features work, just imagine how you
would operate the throttle manually. If you are going over a desired
speed limit, you would back off the throttle. If the vehicle then reached
a hill and started to slow down from your target speed, you would
further engage the throttle, thus continuously adjusting the throttle
position to keep at your desired velocity.The Cycle Analyst behaves similarly. When it senses that any one of
the limiting quantities has been exceeded, then the throttle over-ride
signal starts to decrease from its default resting value (usually
between 4 to 5V, determined by ITermMax). A simple circuit is requiredso that the controller only sees the lower value of the throttle signal or
the Cycle Analyst signal. This is generally achieved with a diode as
follows:



There are various setup options which control the speed at which the
Cycle Analyst responds to these signals. If the settings are too fast,
then the control can be twitchy or oscillate around the desired value,
while gain settings that are too low will cause a long lag time before the
limiting kicks in.7.2 PI Controller

Each of the three limiting features is implemented as a digital
Proportional/Integral (PI) controller. The actual output for speed
regulation is computed as follows:

ITerm = Previous ITerm + IntSGain*(Set Speed - Actual Speed)
Clamp: ITermMin < ITerm < ITermMax
Override = ITerm + PSGain*(Set Speed - Actual Speed)

Similar values are calculated with the current limit, and low voltage
limit, and the smallest of the three over-ride terms is output as a
voltage. If this output is less than the user’s throttle voltage, then it isthe Cycle Analyst which is ultimately controlling the vehicle.

7.3 Tuning the feedback

The ability of the Cycle Analyst to limit the speed, current, or low
voltage in a fast yet smooth manner depends on setting the
appropriate Gain terms for the feedback loop. The default values work
well for ebike setups in the 300-600 watt power range. For more
powerful systems, they will usually lead to the vehicle oscillating
around the programmed set point rather than holding steady. In this
case, it is necessary to tone down the appropriate feedback gains in
the advanced setup menu.

[Jazzjerry]

So these are the insides of a cycle analyst.


Here is the guts from the front perspective...... 


Here is the guts from the back perspective. And yes I clipped a couple of 120$ wires to get it out......... 
I felt like having bought a porche and the thinking ( hey I need a towhook and a bullbar on my car) So sh!t I bought a porche but hell I,ll weld it on anyway.


The housing.


This is the type of switch I am planning to use.


Here you can see additional wiring optios and functions that are not used yet..


Here is some more

[Hardcore]

how do I install a throttle potentionel meter restrictor or wathever it's called.
i got pulled over twices and i'm starting to think they are trying to impound it. we don't want that, right?

[Jazzjerry]

I Think the drawing Bikemad put up is a good enough solution. The cycle analyst is better though. (But expensive) I am not sure yet How exactly I am going to do this but I will also put this in the dutch forum. www.naafmotor.nl (in Dutch)

Maybe you can look into the option Bikemad gave and also post this in the dutch forum for dutch readers to find solutions online as well..
You could also buy a cycle analyst of cource.

So The way I am going to use the cycle analyst to is like explained below.

Got this from the cycle analyst home page.

Throttle Over-Ride Details

In order to take advantage of the speed limit, current limit, and low voltage cutout, the Cycle Analyst needs to be wired in such a way that the Throttle Over-Ride output is able to take charge of the motor controller when one of the limits is surpassed. This is already accomplished in our CA-DP and DPS models when connected to any motor controllers which have the 6-pin Cycle Analyst connector, so no additional wiring is required beyond plugging the two devices together. If you are connecting it to a 3rd party controller then it will be useful to understand the following details.

The over-ride output is an analog voltage that can range from 5V down to 0V. When it detects that a limit is exceeded, the voltage begins to ramp down from its resting point (set by ItermMax), until power to the motor is reduced and the limit (speed, current, or voltage) is no longer exceeded.

The actual output is derived from an op-amp on the circuit board, and it is capable of both sinking and sourcing current. In the original Cycle Analyst boards (identified by a lack of label on the PCB) this output was wired directly from the op-amp, so it was quite stiff, but also made the board vulnerable to damage if the Throttle Over-Ride was accidentally wired incorrectly to a voltage source. In PCB revision 7 (labelled DB2 Rev7b), the output line was modified to include a 1k resistor (R6) to protect the silicone. This however means that the Over-Ride line can only source or sink small currents, and if more than a mA needs to be drawn from the output, then resistor R6 should either be reduced in value to a couple hundred ohms, or possibly shorted out entirely.

In most setups, the user typically has a throttle signal that varies from close to 0 or 1V when it is off, up to 4-5 V when the throttle is fully engaged. For proper operation of the Cycle Analyst limitting features, the signal for the motor controller should be the lower of these two voltages. An easy way to achieve this is with a diode and current limiting resistor on the throttle line as shown in the following schematic:



In cases where the controller circuitboard is readily accessible, then you will often find that there is a series resistor already on the PCB and the throttle over-ride should ideally tap in just after this point, and then an additional resistor is not required.

With the Stand Alone and High Current versions, you will need to drill a hole through the enclosure and feed a wire to the Th pad on the CA circuit in order to access the over-ride signal.

The response time and stability of the limiting features can be adjusted by changing the gain values in the advanced setup menu. Each one is implemented as a Proportional / Integral (PI) controller. Gain settings that are too high will lead to oscillations about the set point, while gain settings that are too low may cause large overshoots and time lags before the values have stabilized.

[TRK]

The big problem with either method of limiting the throttle is in my opinion that it has no effect when using the pedelec.  Maybe the "speed limiter" connection as described in "Re: Variable Regenerative braking" could somehow be used for that?

Also, the Cycle-Analyst has the advantage that it can accurately limit on both the speed and the power drawn, then again it is at least 100 times as expensive.

[Jazzjerry]

So Please think along with me......



Ow NO... Just realised I need a resistor in between there as well...
But still I cant get a grip on how this will work........

What is happening here with just 1 wire diverted from the main wire feeding the controller going into the cycle analyst....
I cant bend my mind around this one......

And where do I posoition the switch to still have both options available. Throtle through cycle analyst and throttle straight up to the controller.... ?? If I would place a switch just before the diode would that do the trick?