Wind Turbine using 72vdc HPM5000B

[coolmobility]

Solardan, if you look at practically every commercial or home built wind gen, you'll find they use brushless motors like the HPM-5000 BUT SMALLER running to a rectifier that turns the three phase AC into a DC current and voltage. These motors, as do PMDC motors, generate voltage in direct relationship to rpm. You would need to run the HPM-5000 at over 4,000 rpm to get 72V  as they can only give the rated Volts/Krpm. I doubt that as a wind gen you will be able to drive it above 3,000rpm (even with gearing) which will give about 48V and up to 100 amp!!!

That is still a hell of a lot of power - remember 5KW is about 7HP - THAT WILL NEED A HUGE PROPELLER and a strong thrust bearing/gearbox to generate that amount of power. Also what power system can be charged at the huge current possible - you must have a huge storage bank. Compare that to a six to eight foot blade generally creating 300-1,000 Watts in moderate winds at 12V or 24V, through a properly built voltage controller (much more complex than the bridge rectifier and voltage regulator solutions proposed). Wind gens also need controllers that cut power generation at high winds to prevent damage to battery banks, melted cables due to excessive current, and high speed destroying wind blades.

I've just ordered two of these motors myself to use in yacht and other EV power projects as they hopefully will be an excellent power motor. But to use it as a power motor it requires a Brushless motor controller (that is more expensive than the motor to twice the price and is rated at up to 72V and 200Amp). These can be used for generation under motor regenarative braking.

The motor on Golden's website is clearly listed as 'Brushless' on home page and BLDC in menu and Model: HPM5000B -- High Power BLDC Motor, Voltage:24V/36V/48V/72V, Rated Power:2000W-7000W in description (BLDC means Brush Less Direct Current - standard motor terminology) so you certainly got what you asked for. You'll need to do your research a bit more first next time.

[coolmobility]

SolarDan

Regarding the RPM, there are circuits that can utilise the Hall Sensor output from the five small wires. Also the waves generated in one phase can be counted by a branch off one of thee three large cables. However, you'll find many cheap cycle computer can give RPM as a function from a magnet mounted on your prop/motor shaft. That would by far be easiest and cheapest solution.

Lots of luck putting it together. Cheers.

[solardan]

Alan,

I was just able to get someone to help me spin my motor.

The best I could read was this,
19.98 VAC at 2000 RPM

Thanks,
Dan

[Bikemad]

19.98 VAC at 2000 RPM

Dan,

If those figures are correct, your wind turbine would have to be geared up very high to spin the motor in excess of 7,200rpm in order to generate 72V.

Wind turbines don't like too much speed!

I think this motor is probably not the best choice for a wind turbine project.

Alan
 

[solardan]

Alan,

I think I bit off more than I can chew.  I thought bigger was better but in this case bigger is a killer to my idea. (I think)

Thank you very much for your assistance during all this.

Maybe this motor of mine will be on Ebay soon so I can buy a different one.

In your opinion, what do you think I should purchase to play with regarding a small residential wind turbine? 
Any ideas on size?


Dan

[Bikemad]

Alan
In your opinion, what do you think I should purchase to play with regarding a small residential wind turbine?  
Any ideas on size?

Dan,

As I've had virtually no involvement with wind turbines myself, I don't think I'm the person that you should be asking.

I recommend you do a lot more research on the internet and join a forum such as this one at Gotwind.com, where you will hopefully find the answers and advice that you require.

Good luck with your wind turbine project.


Alan

P.S. How do you fancy another project?  An electric bike powered by the HPM500B motor, which you could recharge using your wind generator!  

[floatbike]

If the HPM5000B could be connected in a delta configuration instead of the "y" configuration a bit more voltage could be had at the same RPM I believe.

Seems like you should be able to get 72V at 2100RPM as it is though.  My minimotor will do regen charging into the 36V battery pack at as little as 8MPH, that is 38% of the max no load motor speed.

[Bikemad]

If the HPM5000B could be connected in a delta configuration instead of the "y" configuration a bit more voltage could be had at the same RPM I believe.
Seems like you should be able to get 72V at 2100RPM as it is though.  My minimotor will do regen charging into the 36V battery pack at as little as 8MPH, that is 38% of the max no load motor speed.

Floatbike,

These motors might be wired in a delta configuration already, I simply modified an existing circuit diagram in order to show the wiring of the rectifying diodes.
But I did also mention:

For simplicity I've shown the windings as a star configuration, but the motors may be wired in a delta configuration for all I know.

I too am surprised by the low voltage output and would have expected it to be higher than 20V@2000rpm.
I would like to see the results with a rectifier fitted and some sort of loading across the output.

Alan
 

[TOM]

Your HPM5000B is brushless motor.It needs a HPC100B brushless controller to drive.

[Bikemad]

Your HPM5000B is brushless motor.It needs a HPC100B brushless controller to drive.

TOM,

A controller is obviously required to drive the motor, but why is it required when the motor is already being driven by a wind turbine and is only used for generating electricity?

Alan
 

[dajsino]

Alan,

Is it possible to use this for some crude regenerative braking that is missing on HPC100B ?

Dajs

[Leslie]

The diodes work to change the AC into DC.

If its a 72v motor and you only require 12v output the motor may not need to spin up to 4000 rpm.

A bit of guess work here. 1000 watts will charge a 100ah battery.  You could opt for a 6v SLA and get about 400-500 watts from generator and charge a 40~50ah battery at around 1000+ rpm might give you enough over voltage to pound out some current out of the windings to charge a 6v 50ah battery efficiently.

Remember the less internal resistance off the battery the bigger your propeller has to be.  So this could work very well as a small .5kw charger with no gears.

[Leslie]

Your HPM5000B is brushless motor.It needs a HPC100B brushless controller to drive.

TOM,

A controller is obviously required to drive the motor, but why is it required when the motor is already being driven by a wind turbine and is only used for generating electricity?

Alan
 

The type of motor and application should require a brake.  Using the regen from an Ebike controller wouldn't be good enough though. Many controllers can control the amount of regen that is produced which is handy to know.

Another method of braking or shunt is to use a stove element and clamp as a variable load resistor on the AC side of those diodes. This turns your wind turbine from battery charger to an egg fryer.  12v elements can be sought but the current rating maybe a bit low so three or four 10 amp elements may serve as a brake.  

If we could only store huge amounts of excess electricity from wind generators reliably and quickly it would be a much better world.

[e-lmer]

Alan,
Is it possible to use this for some crude regenerative braking that is missing on HPC100B ?
Dajs

It's possible to run the 3Phase motor with a simple controller similar to your
diode array (a simple three wire commutator would let you turn the wheel
at the same rate you turn the commutator.).
You would just be running it at maximum voltage/current when you do.

The problem is that just as the speed varies with the applied voltagein a motor,
the generated voltage varies with the applied windspeed on a windmill.

You still need a controller to regulate the load on the motor.

The easiest way to see this is to hook an electric
motor up on something with a crank of the drive, or if you have
an e-bike, turn it over and disconnect the motor from the speed controller.

When you turn the motor by hand with the circuit open (nothing connected) it turns
freely.

When you turn the motor with the wires shorted together (temporarily)
it is very hard to turn.   The work is going into making voltage and current
internally.

WARNING: DO NOT DRIVE THE MOTOR WITH THE WIRES SHORTED. 
Just turn it by hand.

The controller, in your case, regulates the voltage being generated so that
you can drive your collector at lower than maximum wind speed, but
can gather more power at higher speeds without burning out your charging circuits.

It should ideally keep your battery voltage at a certain level till the current
drops off, then stop generating when the battery bank is full.

[Leslie]

http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/GettingStarted.asp

Large Permanent Magnet DC Motors are another option, but you need to find a motor that has a high running voltage. If a motor designed to run at 2000rpm at 120 volts is used on a windmill, then we could expect 12 volts output at over 200 RPM. Motors designed for 12 volts or 24 volts ( like electric scoota motors ), will only make a 4 to 6 volts when used on a windmill, too low.

http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/Oatley-windmill.asp

Results.

The blades performed very well, achieving a high RPM for low wind conditions. Startup was quick as the DC motors have no cogging.

But output voltage was way down on what I had hoped for. In a 20kmh breeze, open circuit voltage was only 5 volts, even though the windmill was going like a bat out of hell. Surprising was the output current. When I shorted the windmill I had an easy 10 amps, and the windmill only slowed down slightly with this load.

Bad start up could use a small controller to get the prop turning or manual cranking.  The wind turbines seem to operate well when moving.
 
Using 3 or 4 motors in series with shafts welded together on a single large prop could prove quite an interesting project.  

Gears should work but avoid this if you can as this takes away from efficiency and creates more noise.

You could rewind a single motor with more turns with smaller gauge magnet wire.

The HBS motor with its windings may suite you purpose better as its RPM~torque~wattage looks to be more usable.  Ball park figures here, It could deliver 15v 15 amps continuous amps at 400 RPM as this can charge a 48v battery when regen is initiated.  Cogging would no doubt stop the prop from spinning up originally so disconnect all loads to get the prop to spin and the results could excellent. You just may get 500 watts from a windy day from a HBS motor.

The problem is you need the minimum watts the motor puts out in average to low wind conditions to at least charge your battery and on a windy day switch off charging, or stop prop rotation, or shunt and waste much energy to avoid overcharging, a very imperfect solution for a very viable renewable energy application.