Author Topic: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor  (Read 27353 times)

Offline mustangman

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Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« on: August 17, 2007, 04:26:23 AM »
  I was thinking about the possiblility of Golden producing a "Golden Olympian" hub motor to compete with brand 'c' 5 series motor. The first thing any manufacturer needs to know if a market has enough demand for the product, so I would like you to voice your opinion, any suggestions and above all would you actually buy one if it is produced. This is only a kind of poll and no guarantee the motor will be produced, think of it as a type of market research. :)

Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2007, 05:19:17 AM »
Before I voice an opinion please do this: get a price for me on the M-Wheel-12 36 volt 400 watt brushless motor. If you have difficulty or delay in getting a quote on this wheel then what difficulty do you think there might be in securing the development of an "Olympian" motor. I'm not trying to discourage or belittle your notion but I think we must face the reality of the situation we have at hand and work to improve it before reaching for the sky.  :( :'(

Besides in the new world I expect everyone to have a fully equipped machine shop in their garage so they can make their on stuff and tell the rest of the world to get flannel underwear. ;D
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 05:32:01 AM by myelectricbike »

Offline mustangman

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2007, 06:31:49 AM »
  In business, you must do "market research" to see if their is indeed a demand for the product you are going to produce. This is the purpose of this question. Who will know the answer if nobody asks the question? Usually companies pay thousands of dollars for this kind information(are you listening Philip) we as a group can toss this question around for free and if the response if favorable, maybe Golden will consider producing it.  :)

P.S. A "Golden Olypian" motor is named in honor of the 2008 Olympic games to be held in China. Its a motor that can handle upto 5,000 WATTS and is rated under the 750 watt limit set for "consumer goods" motors. This motor is to "level the playing field" with Crystalhighprice 5 series hub motors.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 03:08:54 AM by mustangman »

Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2007, 08:55:55 AM »
Don't you think a switch on the regen controller to allow it to operate in standard mode, with all different  battery types and at all supply voltages would be a great idea or how about this, a 15" x 7 or 8 inch rim with a 30,000 watt hub motor like the 400 watt M-Wheel-12, only bigger?

Forget your wimpy "Olympian" hub motor.  ;D (nay-nay-na-nay-nay)  ;D I want a hub motor I can put on all four wheels that will blow the doors off that rich guy's Lamborghini down the street. Talk about your market research... That's market research!  ;D
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 06:49:55 AM by myelectricbike »

Offline Brandnew

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2007, 03:40:06 PM »
What is a Golden Olympian hub motor?

Offline OneEye

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2007, 03:49:00 PM »
It's a term mustangman made up.  Essentially it would be a high wattage (1kW?) motor, where the motor is underrated on its specification sheet to read 500W.  It meets the nominal power rating for trouble free import as a bicycle kit, but can be "overclocked" for folks wanting to joyride at 30mph+ (or perhaps to tackle tough hills at speed).

Offline OneEye

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2007, 04:11:58 PM »
The biggest problem (as I see it) with this, is compared to the market they are serving (mainland China) even a huge interest level in this small market would be negligible.  So unless there is a high demand for an "olympian" hub motor from within the PRC, you won't see one.

If you look at the numbers the US e-bike market is just tiny, and most US based e-bike manufactureres have a fairly short lifespan.  I believe Currie just went into bankruptcy protection for reorganization, and many other e-bike firms have closed their doors or had to do similar reorganizations.  The top e-bike and e-kit sellers in the US probably sell no more than 20,000-30,000 units in a year.  Compare that to the domestic PRC market of up to 10 MILLION units sold per year.  This is completely reversed from most markets, where getting a piece of the US market pie (with western consumer spending being what it is) is a major thing.  The e-bike market in the US is for use as a toy, a hobby, or an esoteric mode of transportation.  In China, the e-bike is a normal transportation option.

I have become convinced this is why we are seeing the customer service issues that surface on this forum.  Phillip is working multi-thousand unit orders for the native market, but every westerner he sells to is a major headache.  Sure the mark-up potential is much higher, but with the local market he clearly makes up for it in volume.  If he ever sets up a system which is mostly automated for ordering and shipping, and eliminates the in-transit damages he'll have a high mark-up market that doesn't take so much of his attention--the best of both worlds.

I think that is about the best we can hope for.

dray

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2007, 06:04:12 PM »
They will not make one..

Should, but will not..

UNLESS

An american Company makes a large order for them so that they already have the necessary tooling.

Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2007, 11:01:48 PM »
I think there is a misperception that since China has a rep for doing high volume at low cost there is no other option. Fortunately, however, in the case of a hub motors the design was the challenge while the parts necessary to be manufactured do not require high volume tooling.

Look at a Crystalyte or Golden stator yoke and rotor for instance. Every single innards of a Golden motor I have seen have a different configuration; some of which lend themselves very easily to low volume, even one-of production. In fact I do not see anything that requires more than a lathe and a casting for low volume production, not only right here in the good old USA but in almost anyone's garage or basement.

The mathematics to determine number of teeth and number of poles and number of turns is well known and published. Controllers and sensors are available from many different sources at good prices so if it is a an "Olympian" hub motor you want or a Lamborghini eater then its really only a matter of commitment.


dray

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2007, 02:55:29 AM »
Well then take the word "tooling" and replace it with the word "training".

My perception is that 99% of chinese companies will not take a chance to spend the little monies that market research would cost. Much less retrain their employees to wind a hub differently.

It is also my "perception" that it takes a loooong time to do things there. They arent known to set themselves outside of the crowd.

I imagine that the standard hub motor took 20 years. Maybe a Western Company went to a electric motor company and said here please make me 100 of these, they worked they sold so every other factory in that town now also makes them.

But to get them to step out of the crowd and spend some $$ on research....

Well its just an odds game but I would bet that it doesnt come about.

If you want one made talk to Don Grube..

Keep in mind I have alot of "perceptions" it doesnt make them right or true, just the way I see things.

Offline mustangman

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2007, 03:28:21 AM »
  If their is legitimate demand, and there must be one otherwise the competition wouldn't have built the 5 series motor. I am just asking everyone "IF Golden Builds it will you buy it," and any suggestions that you would make before production begins such as myelectricbikes 30,000 watt version,  etcetera.....  This is an opinion poll and that is what market research is!

dray

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2007, 05:09:44 AM »
I think instead I would buy one of these.
I don't want to cut my own throat in the business but I found these the other night and you can use your existing gears.

http://cgi.ebay.com/500w-Motorised-Electric-Motor-Bike-Bicycle-Kit-e-bike_W0QQitemZ220139235909QQihZ012QQcategoryZ7297QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Very smart idea.. Before I got into the hub kit thing I looked all around for this exact thing I even designed a one way bearing in MS paint lol..

The hub motors are very efficient but somewhat limited. These kits I found on ebay are expensive but I'll bet on a straight away you could hit 45 mph and you could climb any hill just change gears.

Its not stealth like the hub motors, its most likely a little noisy, but with the ability to change your gears I think it may be more efficient. I would probably mount the motor in a more conspicuous place and add a jackshaft, raise the voltage etc.

I am going to order one as soon as I find a US dealer to try it out.

www.ampedbikes.com
 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 05:15:39 AM by dray »

Offline mustangman

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2007, 05:40:19 AM »
But with that kit, you lose all your front gear ratios and turn your 21 or 24 speed into a 7 or 8 speed bike. The kicker is that you must have the proper tools to remove/install the crank, add chain and basically permanently modify your bike vs the golden hub motor that you just have to re-install your front wheel. I will take the hub motor anyday!

Offline myelectricbike

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2007, 05:45:55 AM »
I, myself, would go with one of these: Bicycle Kits, available right here in the USA from a very well known, low cost and high quality company in the redwoods of California, if I were to deviate from a hub motor.

...also motor and roller are available on eBay

« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 06:26:40 AM by myelectricbike »

dray

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Re: Should Golden Make a Golden Olypian hub motor
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2007, 06:02:21 AM »
Well you guys were talking about speed.. so I thought I would throw that in there.

Also for going fast and real long range ,I have 3 of these