My new Magic Pie 4 vs. Magic Pie 3, and some problems!

[Marsbar]

So, my old bike was a Magic Pie 3 programmed to 20A max from battery. Worked sweet, removed spring from gas handle so it was easy to use.
The motor responded instantly when you pulled the gas, and you could hear a summing sound thus adjust speed etc.

Now I installed a Magic Pie 4 in the rear wheel of my new bike. First I had some trouble here, because I wanted to program it down to 20A as the other motor because of my batteries only can deliver 20A max.

So, here are the issues now:

1.Programming cable would not work at first, could read but not write. Tried procedure several times.

2.Finally made it remember my setting, first 20A (worked poorly) then 25A. Used the procedure described here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61926

If worked on 10th try, set max. battery current to 25A. Followed instructions exact but It will normally not remember my settings...

So, here are the issues:

1)Motor appears to have electrical brake, worked pretty well actually downhill! Might save my brakes a little 
My battery pack is not designed for regenerative braking (?) it's a "V-Power" pack 48V 15Ah. Will this work ok?

Problem is after regenerative braking the motor will not start until 5-7 seconds have passed it does not "wake up" instantly.

2)Motor was silent, there is no sound, so no feedback on my throttle like my old one, very strange...

3)Motor accelerates very slow, it takes 5 seconds before it "wakes" up after max speed is given, when brakes have been applied it sort of sleeps for a while maybe 5-7 seconds before it starts to accelerate again. Does this have to do with my ampere setting of 25A?
(My battery can only supply 20A max)

4)Is it possible with cruise control? There is a red button on the twist handle, tried it, did not get any response?

5) There is a small item with GREEN and a RED button. What are these for? Should I plug it in?

Nevertheless, tested the 28" wheel bicycle with front damper, it takes time before the motor kicks in, it's somewhat slow, but once it first get started in makes NO noise whatsoever, and speed is fast!

Does all of this has to do that I put the settings down from 35A to 25A? My battery is Li-Ion and says 20A max...

6) The programming plug is now exposed to rain contra Magic Pie 3 plug that was used, so I have to put Vaseline and vulk tape to seal it off from rain?

So, some issues here as I am used to MP3, but MP3 seems to be out of production and replaced by MP4... 

[Bikemad]

Unfortunately the programming does take a bit of getting used to, and I found that the "upload" and "download" icons do not work as I expected them to.

It sounds like the acceleration setting is too low on the controller, I experienced a very long "delayed" response to the throttle when I tried using the early vector software with a later vector controller.
Try using the revised software and set the acceleration to 80% and see if it makes any difference.
I found 100% was a bit too high on my MP4 as I could not pull away smoothly on it. 

Alan
 

[Marsbar]

The response is insane irritating slow, it's like the motor is charging before it decides to kick in. I have no idea why it has to be this way. Or did they only design it to work properly with 35A batteries...?

My MP2 with built in controller on my other bike was better, but they don't sell it any more. It had a direct response to speed, no delay...

Managed to program it, but you have to disconnect the distributer plug and only have the usb cable connected.  
This was not stated in the instructions I found...

On the god side, motor is silent, once it kicks in it draws me up all hills silently. Also super fast on flat road, 45kmh was no problem. Cruise control button works also. Will test the bike tomorrow...

[Bikemad]

The response is insane irritating slow, it's like the motor is charging before it decides to kick in. I have no idea why it has to be this way. Or did they only design it to work properly with 35A batteries...?

My MP2 with built in controller on my other bike was better, but they don't sell it any more. It had a direct response to speed, no delay...

If the revised software in my previous post didn't make any difference I suggest you try setting the acceleration to 100% or try using the VEC Controller Programming Software currently available from the GM website.

I encountered the same delayed throttle response when I first tested a revised vector back in July last year:

With the Acceleration set at 100% (and the wheel raised off the ground) it is unbelievably slow to respond to full throttle and takes over 12 seconds to reach maximum rpm on 32V, and 27 seconds on 54V.
It makes absolutely no difference whether the "Acceleration" setting is set on 20, 40, 60, 80 or 100.
I have confirmed (by powering off and reconnecting the controller) that the different “Acceleration” settings are definitely being changed within the controller, but it simply has no effect on the motor's snail-like acceleration.
 
I have only ridden about 3 or 4 miles with the new controller today, but that was more than enough for me.  The long delayed response to the throttle has simply made riding the bike unsafe and it is now hard work instead of enjoyable fun.
If I’m pedalling along under my own power, I can’t just twist the throttle to quickly overtake parked cars etc., because I have to wait several seconds before the controller catches up to the existing wheel speed and eventually begins to accelerate, but very slowly.

This was before I was informed of the revised software.
I reset the acceleration to 100% using the revised software (which indicated that it was previously set at just 5%) and soon discovered that the throttle was then a bit too responsive and have subsequently reduced it to around 80%.

I found the original controller was too responsive at 100%, but unfortunately it had too much of a delay at 80% and there was no way of setting it anywhere in between those two settings.

The revised controller and software allows fine adjustments of the acceleration setting using 1% increments between 0 and 100, whereas the original controller could only be set at 0, 20%, 40% 60%, 80% or 100%.

When the controller is set to maximum acceleration using the correct software, it is a lot more responsive to the throttle than the MPII and MPIII controllers.

I think the complete lack of noise under full load is truly magical compared to the intrusive "pinging" noise which is emitted from the earlier Magic Pies (and Smart Pies) under load.

Alan
 

[Marsbar]

No luck connecting with any of the programs versions. One of the earlier versions of the programming software works in one in 10 attempts:

This is how I do it:

1.Insterted USB plug, Windows 8 installed driver automatically.
2.Mouse stopped working on touchpad on computer, had to insert mouse in USB.
3.Disconnect all cables to MP4.
4.Plugs in USB cable in computer and MP4.
5.Connects program, get timeout error after pressing connect button. Selects Com 4 for USB cable.
6.Turn on 48V battery power to motor.
5.Program displays parameters after I have turned on battery.
6.This only works in 1 in 20 attempts, very unreliable.

It looks like it's not working. Also tried your new programming software, not working at all.

Problems I have now is:

1)

Programming is difficult, have only succeed once in 20 attempts

2)

Very slow response to throttle, If I brake, then give full power it takes 7 seconds before it starts up again and start to accelerate.
From a standstill, the motor is very slow accelerating.

3)

If the wheel is running in free air, it goes uneven until it reaches full speed. My Magic Pie 2 does not do this, it rotates even at any speed.

What I feel is that that my MP2 actually was 10 times better:

-Instant response to throttle
-Humming Sound to give feedback to you what power you are using, how hard the motor is working
-One plug for programming and all signals, no exposed open programming plug
-Programming Software worked, easy to use no fault messages (First programming cable was defect...)
-Controller soldered inside motor, simple & reliant
-Cables to be wired in a small JB instead of plugs, gives access to all signals

Now problem is that I cannot move my MP2 from FRONT on my old bike to REAR on my new bike. That's why I bought a new one...

Conclusion: The MP4 I got does not work for me compared to MP2. Just have to remove everything and send it back the long way for $140...

Magic Pie 2 rear is as I understand it out of production. Not sure what to do now. Abandon the project altogether or change it to Magic Pie 3?

Kinda tired of sending back and forth, I think I give up. Might run into the same programming trouble with MP3?

Only thing I trust at the moment is MP2...

[Marsbar]

Unfortunately I have given up the Magic Pie 4 and returning it tomorrow the long way.

The programming did only work on two occasions, and I could count 10 seconds before the motor kicked in.

If I started the motor up in the air with no resistance, it would run very uneven before it reached top speed.
However, the motor was 100% silent and has good torque once up in speed. 40-45km/h was no problem whatsoever on a flat road.

If I used the brakes, and then wanted motor power I had to give full gass and then wait 10 secounds before the motor would
assist me again. The MP2 have no delay.

Going to ask to have a MP2 rear instead with internal controller (What I have from before today, only front motor), but I guess it's out of production. So I guess they will send me an MP3 rear 700C. Have no idea why they made some many models, a rear MP2 would do all the work for everybody...