Author Topic: charging a 48v with the 12v of a standard 'automotive' battery  (Read 8583 times)

Offline stepir

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charging a 48v with the 12v of a standard 'automotive' battery
« on: September 06, 2011, 03:03:17 PM »
Hi Guys!

I'm a RV user and I'd like to be able to charge the batteries of my ebikes (2) while around without having to rely on the 220v.

My RV is equipped with a 1.5KW inverter so it would not be such a big issue using the standard GM charger, but I really feel it is a waste to convert the 12v to 220v and then back to 48v.

My idea is using a step up and convert directly the 12v to 48v (this is the converter I was planning to use http://cgi.ebay.it/DC-DC-Converter-Regulator-12V-Step-Up-to-48V-5A-240W-/260791560176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb86367f0 )

I've noticed that the original GM charger seems also to cut off the charging once the battery is full, and I was wondering if in my use case might be dangerous (overcharging) for the Lifepo4 batteries to keep them connected to the 48v input for a long period of time. Do you think the cutoff is handled by the internal BMS?

Just in case I should handle this situation I was thinking about using (input from step up, output to the 48v battery) a Solar Panel controller. This one is a 48v version and is able to handle 48v solar panels (the output of the step up in my case) and 48v batteries (the lifepo4 battery in mycase):
http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220769190342

Just for your info my RV is equipped with 2 12v batteries each one of 100Ah. How much Ah would it be drawn from the RV batteries to fully charge 1 Lifepo4 48v 10ah battery? 

Thanks a lot in advance for your advise!

Offline e-lmer

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Re: charging a 48v with the 12v of a standard 'automotive' battery
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 06:32:44 PM »
There are a couple of things going on here that should be addressed.

The Lithium batteries do not charge linearly.

They increase the voltage to get as close to the max
charging current as possible until the current starts to
drop, then either pulse or lower the voltage(current) to
top off the cells as they cool.

A 48V supply won't really charge your battery completely.

Overcharging your battery is not dangerous for LiFePO4
cells, but it does shorten the life of the pack.

GM does offer a solar charger tho.

Offline stepir

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Re: charging a 48v with the 12v of a standard 'automotive' battery
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 08:10:48 PM »
Thanks for answering!

They increase the voltage to get as close to the max
charging current as possible until the current starts to
drop, then either pulse or lower the voltage(current) to
top off the cells as they cool.

Is this addressed by the BMS?

Quote
A 48V supply won't really charge your battery completely.

So what voltage you suggest?

Quote
GM does offer a solar charger tho.

I've already a 100W solar panel on my RV, would prefer avoid another one :)

At the end I haven't still clear if an external regulator/charger is needed or I can just apply a 48v+ to the battery to have it charged. Does the GM solar panel implementation use anything between the solar panel and the battery to control the charging?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 02:18:27 PM by stepir »

Offline stepir

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Re: charging a 48v with the 12v of a standard 'automotive' battery
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 09:16:28 AM »
bump! any others?  ;D

Offline MonkeyMagic

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Re: charging a 48v with the 12v of a standard 'automotive' battery
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 10:07:02 AM »
Bump! (what is that?? lol) I tried this with the old charger but was unsuccessful, then pretty much forgot about it....I've seen this done by tapping into the charger on the DC side just after the transformer. Basically eliminating AC. If you search long enough on Youtube I'm sure you will find it.

He used 3 solar cells from memory charging a 36v battery. I think it was even on a bicycle trailer

If you are game, open your charger and see if you can obtain an unregulated DC voltage from the transformer, if this is the case you are cooking with gas.

If it's regulated, then you will need to match this value which is also not so difficult.

Cannot say for sure, but I assume the GM panels have either a suitable in-line charger or each cell group is regulated to output the correct voltage depending on the battery type.

Also you can safely charge Li-ion/po with a small current providing there is no serious (more than 5%) over voltage, because its solar; there is no real chance of 'leaving it on too long' as night will come before any damage will occur anyway. You would never really want to use this to fully charge a battery from dead to full, more so to keep it topped up.

Saying this, why don't you try one of these I tried finding the one I have (unused) that handles 10A (also around $10), but this one looks good too. Anyways have a looksy around the e of bay.

Using this you would put your panel in full sunlight, then adjust the output to 54.6V before connecting to your battery to charge. I don't know what kind of current you will get (or expect) but I assume it will be around 1A maybe less.

Ideally you want to tap into the charger, then you have the convenience of plugging AC - or your custom lead to goto your panel. Nice and neat

Cheers