Author Topic: inverter/converter  (Read 18831 times)

Offline myelectricbike

  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 644
    • How to Build an Electric Bike
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2007, 03:15:47 AM »
Its basically the amps. Lets say the controller needs 30 amps and with your setup it gets 15 from the 36v battery pack and 15 from the inverter/converter at 36 volts. How many amps at 12 volts do you think will be needed to produce 15 amps at 36 volts? 45 amps sounds about right to me. So if you have a 12 volt battery with a 15 Ah capacity how long is it going to last?

If you are into experimentation then why not start by creating a spreadsheet to calculate everything you want to know under all the various values for the different variables. This way you can experiment with any scenario such as a 10amp inverter/converter to a 20amp pack draw, etc.

Offline OneEye

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 261
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2007, 03:39:46 AM »
Yup, part of it will be what voltage the inverter/adapter produces based on what the input voltage is, and what the voltage cutoffs are for the inverter.  If the single battery pack sees any high draws it will experience voltage sag, which may or may not drop the inverter below its cutoff voltage.  When run in parallel with the primary battery pack there will be some load sharing, the battery pack voltage and the inverter/adapter output voltage will always be very close to equal, so the complexity of the calculation lies in computing what the voltage of each is at different power levels and different states of discharge.  Overall I think they should behave OK together.  The hardest part will be getting all the necessary voltage/amp curves.

Offline GoldenMotor

  • GoldenMotor
  • Emperor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,040
  • Dark Templar
    • GoldenMotor Youtube
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2010, 11:19:53 AM »
test

Offline Hardcore

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2010, 03:40:43 PM »
whatthe hell is that movie , just a test, to put youtube videos on the forum by first downloading them as .flv?

Offline GM Brazil

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 275
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2010, 04:07:30 PM »
A new product!

Offline Hardcore

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 422
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2010, 05:08:34 PM »
well it's a test, but for what

Offline e-lmer

  • Technical Officer
  • Master of Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 458
    • My page
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2010, 11:33:27 PM »

So we're on the same page here, are you talking about switching in
an up-converter when the batteries are low or are you talking about
leaving it in the whole time?

Both have drawbacks, but different ones.

Leaving the upconverter in will waste your smaller 12V source at a
greater rate than the 36V series pack.  This is because there will
be internal resistance from the series pack that won't be found in
the electronic up-converter (depending on how it's designed of course.)
That unit should supply 36V gladly at whatever current you need to
drive the load up to the rated power of the unit, till the pack is exhausted.

This could lead to high current and shortened battery life on your 12V unit.

If, however, you are talking about switching it in only when the 36V pack is low,
then you need to make sure to disconnect the 36V pack or you waste energy
dumping power into the battery chemistry rather than driving your bike.
So now we are talking about double switching the power in and out, more hardware
more weight to drag around.

It appears to me that, no matter how you look at it, the answer is to have a bigger pack
at the voltage you need.  YMMV, of course.

Offline GoldenMotor

  • GoldenMotor
  • Emperor
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,040
  • Dark Templar
    • GoldenMotor Youtube
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2010, 01:39:22 AM »
... omg I was trying to host files for my friend. we play computer games after work to relax.

Offline Leslie

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,047
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2010, 03:12:44 PM »

So we're on the same page here, are you talking about switching in
an up-converter when the batteries are low or are you talking about
leaving it in the whole time?

Both have drawbacks, but different ones.

Leaving the upconverter in will waste your smaller 12V source at a
greater rate than the 36V series pack.  This is because there will
be internal resistance from the series pack that won't be found in
the electronic up-converter (depending on how it's designed of course.)
That unit should supply 36V gladly at whatever current you need to
drive the load up to the rated power of the unit, till the pack is exhausted.

This could lead to high current and shortened battery life on your 12V unit.

If, however, you are talking about switching it in only when the 36V pack is low,
then you need to make sure to disconnect the 36V pack or you waste energy
dumping power into the battery chemistry rather than driving your bike.
So now we are talking about double switching the power in and out, more hardware
more weight to drag around.

It appears to me that, no matter how you look at it, the answer is to have a bigger pack
at the voltage you need.  YMMV, of course.

Interestingly with batteries once they are flat you wouldn’t want to draw more from them anyway.  Could use it as a speed booster on the highways at the cost of wasting more current but the losses would be smaller during peak cruise on flats.  

The killer application for a intermittent booster circuit to have switch in is for ultracaps.

I have an ultracap LED torch, unfortunately once the energy drains the voltage drops below the LED threshold and its useless but still about a good two volts sitting their to be had.  Higher energy caps could be exploited in such a fashion to tap deep into higher voltages.

The perfect capacitor ESU when below  LVC should have a booster to get above LVC.  

Capacitors don't suffer from cell death like batteries so if you can find a way top suck them down to 0v go for it.  At 0v, they are almost a dead short to a charger.  Even a cap that could give 60v@100 farad would unvail some awesome stuff.

Enough about caps.

A booster uses inductors to produce the voltage rise, a motor is an inductor. You can achieve the same result as a booster by altering the inductance of the motor too.  It works on the same pricipal but its direct and more efficient inside the motor.  DC motors, PWM can do amazing things with inductance.



A circuit board, and electronic switches, PIC, multap motor coil windings.  This would be the cream of the crop and ready to play with.  The coil tappings could interface with the controller, PWM, sensorless phase angle logic and all sorts.  We already have a voltage booster inside the electric motor.  
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 03:16:40 PM by 317537 »

Bring it on

Offline Sangesf

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 180
Re: inverter/converter
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 07:17:20 PM »
I'm telling you from experience that a dual motor dual battery setup will be MUCH more effiecient then trying to add another small battery to augment your original batteries.

The original configuration I had, was 2 24v batteries and motors using 4 12v 30ah batteries.
I tested the range / speed with using only 1 battery(set)/motor at 2-12v 30ah and a dual battery(set) of 2-12v batteries of 15ah each to each motor and I got ~ 30% more range AND power, which translates from (original) speed/range of 15 mph and 27 mile to (new) speed/range  of 18 mph and 35 miles.

My new(est) setup is 2 36v batteries (LiFePo4 - one is 15ah the other 30ah) and I currently have a speed/range of either 18mph and 90 miles or 20mph and 70 miles or MAX speed of 21.6mph and 60 miles.

With my current batteries, at one time, I had them hooked up to a single motor (with a toggle to switch batteries when one go low) and the speed / range figures were definitely much lower. (again about 30% lower)