Help with Bypassing internal Vector Controller on Magic Pie 5

[MilehighGuy]

Hi All,
    I have a black Magic Pie 5 rear wheel motor and I am looking to bypass the internal Vector controller with a more powerful external controller that can handle from 36V up to 96V with more fets for power. I know that this motor can handle more than what this internal controller will allow and I am looking for some advice on how to accomplish this from some people that have done this mod. What controller to get as well as how to bypass and wire it up. Thanks for your time to anyone willing to help 

[Bikemad]

If you are after more speed, then a higher voltage battery will be essential, but if you are only wanting more torque and power, then this can be achieved by having a higher current controller.

Take a look at this topic for some useful information on converting from internal to external controllers.

The wiring is relatively straightforward, you simply need to extend the three thick phase wires and the five thin Hall sensor wires from the stator to the new external controller.
This process is a lot easier on the new Vector Pies than it was on the original MPIIs, because you do not have to pass all the wires through a narrow slot in the axle:



Fortunately, the MP5 has a lot more room for the wires:



The cast aluminium cover shown in the top left corner of the above photo is from an early MPIII controller, but it should be possible to make a simple cover from some 3mm thick Aluminium sheet. You might want to run a fillet of silicone sealant around the axle hole on the plate to prevent water seeping into the hub.

Alan
 

[MilehighGuy]

Thanks Alan for the informative reply.
  I am wanting to put a 72v battery on my bike and since the internal controller cuts out at 63v I would have to bypass the internal. Do you happen to know of a good inexpensive external controller you might recommend for the job?

[Bikemad]

Edward Lyen supplies a variety of controllers, check out his website or many of the threads on Endless-Sphere for further information.

If you send him an email (along with your specific requirements regarding maximum current and voltage etc.) he should be able to help you out.

Alan

[MilehighGuy]

Hey Alan,
 I am still having a hard time finding data on this mod and hoped you may be able to help with my dilemma. I have gone in and done surgery on my MP5 and have removed the internal vector controller. I bought a generic no brand controller on eBay that is 48v-72v 1500w with 15fets. The bad thing is there is no instructions and the only thing I have to go on is a photo that is on eBay for the wiring which is very hard to understand.
   Any way what I am trying to achieve is to use the throttle brakes and the other stuff that came with the golden motor and use all of the parts that I already have and hook them up to this controller to get the motor to work do you know what wires I would have to hook up in order to get this working? I have seen the wiring diagram you posted in another topic and have probed with multimeter to determine which colors correspond to what pin but can't seem to get throttle to respond. In short what needs to be connected and what doesnt need to be connected coming from a controller?

[Bikemad]

The three phase wires (Motor A, B and C) and the five hall sensor wires (Motor hall) will obviously need to be connected to the motor in place of the old controller.

The "Power +" connects to the battery + and the "Power -" connects to the battery -.

The "Power switch" connection will need to connect to the Battery + (either directly or via a separate on/off switch).

I'm guessing that the "Turn the lpug" connector is for the throttle (or a voltage mode PAS sensor).

I'm also guessing that the High line and Low line are for different styles of brake switch. GM uses a Low level signal (connects the blue signal wire to the black ground/0V) when the brake switch is activated to trigger motor cut out function.
Other scooters with a 12V lighting system often use a 12V High level signal (which also supplies the brake light bulb while braking).

The "Instrument plug" should not need to be connected.

You shouldn't need the "Burglary power" or the "Signal theft" wires unless you particularly want to incorporate an anti theft function, which presumably requires a horn to be fitted also.

The "Reversing Plug" wires are only required if you need the reverse function.

The "Three-speed plug" is often connected to a three position switch to allow different power setting to be selected, but it should work without this at one fixed level , but I'm not sure if it will be high, med or low though .

I'm not really sure what the "Learning plug" wires are for, perhaps they are used for setting the Phase angle to suit the motor? 

It might be worth asking over on the Endless-Sphere forum as I expect someone there may have experience with that type of controller.

Alan
 

[MilehighGuy]

Thank you Alan for clarifying that for me. Can you help with one more situation? lol I will take a picture of the internal vector controller and the wire connections that I snipped. If you would be so kind as to what these connections to this external controller might correspond to given their connections to original internal controller.

[MilehighGuy]

If it is hard to see the wiring is as such
PA:BLACK = ?
SP:GREEN = ?
CR:RED = ?Cruse?
TA:Yellow = ?Horn/Lights?
BKL:Blue = ?Break Lever?
RX:Purple = ?Receive?
TX:Orange = ?Transmit?
VSP5V:White = ?Variable Speed 5volt?

If you can make sense of these can you tell me what I should connect these with on the new controller given that I will be using the same harness/Throttle/LCD display/Break levers that came with the golden motor kit.

Thank You for your time in helping me figure this out! Much appreciation to you Alan

David

[Bikemad]

I have just checked the connections on one of my controllers and I would suggest that the connections on your controller will be as follows:
PA:BLACK = Reverse signal wire "Reversing Plug" wire on new controller if reverse function is required
SP:GREEN = Throttle signal wire "Turn the lpug" wire on new controller
CR:RED = Cruise signal wire Not supported on new controller
TA:Yellow = Pedal speed signal wire from Pedelec sensor Probably not supported in addition to the throttle on new controller
BKL:Blue = Brake switch signal wire "Low line" wire on new controller
RX:Purple = Data Receive (used for USB/Bluetooth programming and BAC-601 display unit) Not supported on new controller
TX:Orange = Data Transmit (used for USB/Bluetooth programming and BAC-601 display unit) Not supported on new controller
VSP5V:White = +5V power supply wire (this 5 Volt feed provides power to run the throttle unit hall sensor, Bluetooth dongle and Pedelec sensor unit) Combine with the red hall sensor wire on new controller

Unfortunately, I think it's very unlikely that the USB programming lead, Bluetooth dongle or GM LCD display will work with your new controller. 

Alan
 

[MilehighGuy]

Alan,
Thank you so very much for your help!! I will try those combinations and report my findings when completed.
Again I can't thank you enough for your time Alan!

David