Author Topic: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery  (Read 12994 times)

Offline Abe

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Hello Alen,

How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery efficiently without a large Voltage measuring instrument and a relatively low expense.
The Battery type is 48V 15AH 40152S HEADWAY LiFePO4 Battery Pack.
The Motor type is Magic Pie 4.

Thank you,
Abe







« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 11:41:39 AM by Abe »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2015, 04:06:43 PM »
I use a Turnigy Wattmeter to monitor battery voltage, current and consumed battery capacity.



I made up some gender changers on mine so I can use the same meter to measure my regen current, and also to monitor my battery while charging at home:



If I want to measure both motor current and regen current throughout the ride, I have to use two meters connected in series, one is simply wired in reverse (battery on LOAD side and motor on SOURCE side) to enable the regen current to be measured:



Unlike the more expensive Cycle Analyst, the Turnigy Wattmeter looses all the information when battery power is removed.

I'm anxious to find out what the Bluetooth device used on the MP5 will actually monitor.

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:26:37 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Abe

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2015, 05:50:09 PM »
Hello Alen,
Thanks, sounds very complex solution.
By the way, the solution's Golden Motro is not working properly(Integrated Thumb Throttle With Battery Gauge).
I need only to know when to recharge the battery, or when the battery is low  (only that I needed)..

I'll send you a link on eBay instrument, do you think the device might accordance with the requirements of mine?
If so, where do I need to connect the device?

Thank you,
Abe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LED-Battery-Status-Charge-Indicator-Monitor-Meter-Gauge-12V-72V-TM-/251749985902?hash=item3a9d77ee6e&item=251749985902&vxp=mtr
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 06:10:36 PM by Abe »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 10:18:59 PM »
Hi Abe,

Although it doesn't mention it in the listing, that battery meter is for meant to be used with lead acid batteries and will therefore be about as much use as the GM battery gauge you already have.

The GM battery gauges were also designed for use with lead acid batteries, which have quite a pronounced voltage drop as the battery is discharged or loaded. The lithium batteries however have a very gradual voltage drop throughout the discharge period until they reach a point where the voltage suddenly drops very quickly very near to the end of their discharge cycle.

The following diagram is not meant to be 100% accurate, it is purely intended to give a rough comparison of the typical discharge curves for the three types of batteries that are commonly used:


A 13 cell Lithium Polymer pack would be almost the same as the LiMnO2 curve.

I don't know the actual figures, so let's simply assume that the battery gauge Green and Amber LEDs are meant to go off at 51V (~50%) and 45V (~85%) respectively with a lead acid battery pack. 
If you look again at the above diagram, you should be able to see that the LiFePO4 pack would need to be ~90% discharged before the Green light would go off, and almost completely exhausted before the Amber light would go off.

I use my battery gauge solely to indicate that power is turned on, and I rely on my Turnigy Watt Meter to measure the capacity in Ahs that has actually been used, and this gives me a reasonably good indication of how much battery capacity I still have available to use.

If you don't want to fit a wattmeter, you would be better off with a digital voltmeter to show the actual battery voltage, but most of the voltmeters available for up to 60V require a separate power supply which makes it more difficult to install.

This LCD Voltmeter doesn't require a separate power supply as it only has two wires:



But it is almost as large as the Turnigy Watt Meter and isn't waterproof making it unsuitable for external use.
(It's also too large to fit into the 48V 10Ah rack mounted battery casing :()


Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:25:50 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Abe

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2015, 04:43:49 AM »
Hi Alan,
As always, you always know what convinced that this is the right way.
So, if I understand the voltage supply to motor passing through Watt Meter and Power Analyzer ?
** What can be seen on the display to make a decision when to recharge the battery?
** Since high current passes through the Watt Meter it heats up, how it is cooling?

** Another option for solving:
I want to focus on understanding the solution (important for me to understand), for example, if I connect a normal volt meter to battery 48v (Forget for a moment the issue of waterproof) Can it give me a solution to tell when I need to recharge the battery?
If so, what should I see on a volt meter to make a decision to begin charging the battery?

Thanks,
Abe
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 10:02:13 AM by Abe »

Offline Bikemad

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 04:32:31 PM »
** What can be seen on the display to make a decision when to recharge the battery?

The display continually shows the following "real time" information:
Actual Current draw (Shown in the top left section in Amps)
Actual Battery Voltage (Shown in the top right section in Volts)
Actual Power being consumed (Shown in the lower right section in Watts)

In the lower left section of the display it also displays the following information in sequence at ~2 second intervals:
  • Battery Capacity used (Ah)
  • Battery Energy consumed (Wh)
  • Maximum Current Drawn (Amps)
  • Minimum Voltage (Volts)
  • Maximum consumed Power (Watts)
The one you would be wanting will be the "Battery Capacity used" reading that shows what capacity of the battery has actually been consumed.
If you have a 10Ah battery and the display shows that 8Ah has been used, there should still be ~2Ah remaining in the battery. (Assuming the battery is in good condition and was fully charged before use.)

** Since high current passes through the Watt Meter it heats up, how it is cooling?

The wattmeter itself only consumes a very small amount of current (~13mA or ~0.013A) so there is no actual heating up to worry about.

** Another option for solving:
I want to focus on understanding the solution (important for me to understand), for example, if I connect a normal volt meter to battery 48v (Forget for a moment the issue of waterproof) Can it give me a solution to tell when I need to recharge the battery?
If so, what should I see on a volt meter to make a decision to begin charging the battery?

The voltage reading can be used to give a rough indication of the battery's state of charge.
If you look at the following graph (which is not very accurate) you can see the voltage reduces as the battery is discharged:



If the graph was accurate, and you had a 48V LiFePO4 battery with the voltmeter showing a reading of 57V with no load, it should theoretically have ~80% of its capacity remaining. If the "no load" voltage reading was less than 56V, the battery should have less than 20% of its capacity left.

One problem with using the battery voltage is its variation dependant upon the load. The battery voltage will drop under high load and will rise again when the load stops, but can it can take some time for the voltage to completely stabilise after the load has stopped.

The other problem is that the discharge curve varies according to the specific cells being used which can be very different from one manufacture to another (or even one battery to another dependant upon their age and usage).

I find that measuring the capacity in actual AHs used is far more accurate than trying to judge the capacity by voltage readings alone.

If you have used the battery, it is probably better to recharge fully before its next use so you know it is fully charged and will give the longest range and will be less likely to run out.

It is better for the battery to be only partially discharged and then recharged again before each trip.

Allowing it to run until completely flat over several trips/days before charging again will be more harmful to the battery.
If you never use more than 80% of your battery's capacity and charge more frequently, it should extend the battery's working life.

As far as charging is concerned, I always go for "little and often", as frequent "partial" charges will be much better for the battery than infrequent "full" charges in the long term. ;)

Alan
 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:25:09 PM by Bikemad »

Offline Abe

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2015, 05:36:45 PM »
Hello Alan,
As usual a pleasure to read your detailed explanations, only to be jealous of your ability.

Most of my trips are short about 10 km, according to your strategies; even then the battery needs recharging.
Is it possible to charge the battery in the case above, (I must say that my charger is a quality capable of 5AH), by the way, it requires me to leave the charger connected to the battery charge status throughout the night, far more than necessary, whether this condition can cause damage to the battery?

 I thank you ,
Abe
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 06:12:17 PM by Abe »

Offline WestOz

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 06:57:52 AM »
Hi Abe,

I found this on eBay.  I ordered one but it hasn't arrived yet, so I can't say if it works or not, but it certainly looks like it will and it has the capacity for a 48V Li-ion battery pack. Plus the price was right for a test if nothing else.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Battery-Balance-Checker-Volt-Current-Watt-Meter-Tester-Power-Analyzer-RC-/171802454655?

I am hopeful I can isolate the battery shunt and just run the sensing wiring up to the display which I would mount with my BAC-601 LCD display.  That way I can track Ahrs, which as Alan has pointed out is the best way to tell how much remaining power we have.

Cheers,




Offline Abe

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 08:17:43 AM »
Hello Cheers,
First of all thank you, note whether the product supports waterproof?
In addition, there is a product very similar or perhaps identical to that recommended Allen,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-GT-Power-RC-130A-LCD-Battery-Balance-Watt-Meter-Power-Analyzer-Ver-2-0-dvz-/191092888828?hash=item2c7e0614fc

Thanks,
Abe

Offline WestOz

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2015, 08:04:16 AM »
Hi Abe,

Also a good choice, and as you suggest it does look like it might be water resistant.

WestOz

Offline Thuktun

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Re: How can I monitoring/measure the level of consumption of the battery
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 11:31:24 AM »
Regarding those digital voltmeters on eBay you can get dirt cheap. I put one on my bike. It reads up to 100v but can only be powered by up to 30v. The solution? Resistor voltage divider. The divider halves the voltage to power the unit and the sense wire taps in just before the divider. I forget the exact values I used. I'd check but I potted the whole thing into a plastic box with epoxy to water proof it. Yes it does draw some quiescent current when it's on and I'm not riding but I can live with that.