Author Topic: controller/more power  (Read 8391 times)

Offline kmleon77

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 102
controller/more power
« on: September 22, 2011, 07:06:41 PM »
hello
I am riding a Magic Pie kit
I would like to get more power
I don't care about the speed it is enough for me with the golden motor controller
so I think I have to change the controller
what about the kind of controller I need and how many amps without burning the motor?
what about the infineon controllers and then what is the most appropriated one?
thanks for the answers
and then what about adding a C.A ?
fred
2 MP external controllers and 1 MP internal (avatar)
2 VTT for fun and one yuba to take my children to school
all this with 48V10Ah lipo batteries
waiting for MP3 : is it going to be more powerfull ?????

Offline DirtyGinge

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 614
  • Im just trying to find my niche.3 e-bikes is fine
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2011, 07:42:19 PM »
how much money you have :)

I use a lyen@hotmail.com 12 fet infineon controller, have put 3kw through pie, accelerate up constant 45 degree hills no problem, but wiring etc must be replaced for proper 12 AWG to handle the amps

The normal wire will handle 1-15KW no problem
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute

Offline mike662

  • Confirmed
  • Magic Undergrad
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2011, 08:52:46 PM »
If you want a cheap controller that can handle 40amps constant, get this for $33 shipped:  http://www.dhgate.com/72v-1500w-brushless-speed-controller-for/p-ff808081283845f5012848d41bf455fb.html

Discussion on the controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29469&hilit=hua+tong It basically is not programmable but has cruise control, regen, mutli-speed switch compatible, tested with over 100V

You might have to adjust the low-voltage cutoff on it if you are using below 60V.

Offline mike662

  • Confirmed
  • Magic Undergrad
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2011, 08:54:00 PM »
And it looks like the jacked the price up to $37 due to the demand for them as of late. Still a great price though!

Offline kmleon77

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 102
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 08:40:50 AM »
hi
how many amps can the MP accept without burning ?
thnakx for the answers
fred
2 MP external controllers and 1 MP internal (avatar)
2 VTT for fun and one yuba to take my children to school
all this with 48V10Ah lipo batteries
waiting for MP3 : is it going to be more powerfull ?????

Offline kmleon77

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 102
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 11:35:43 AM »
HI
in fact I still want to use a 48V battery
is there a way I can use a powerfull controller and add a C.A for example
so that I can select some power if I want to have fun and do the opposite if I want to run a long distance
so what would be the right choice for the controller ? 40A 45A or more or less?
I still want to use the cruise control and the ebrakeand thumb control
thanks
fred
2 MP external controllers and 1 MP internal (avatar)
2 VTT for fun and one yuba to take my children to school
all this with 48V10Ah lipo batteries
waiting for MP3 : is it going to be more powerfull ?????

Offline mike662

  • Confirmed
  • Magic Undergrad
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2011, 06:41:54 PM »
HI
in fact I still want to use a 48V battery
is there a way I can use a powerfull controller and add a C.A for example
so that I can select some power if I want to have fun and do the opposite if I want to run a long distance
so what would be the right choice for the controller ? 40A 45A or more or less?
I still want to use the cruise control and the ebrakeand thumb control
thanks
fred

I'm not sure how much power the MP is rated for, maybe someone else can chime in here. It is possible to use the CA to select the amount of power going to the hub. You can have it set, for example, to throttle back (meaning it overrides your thumb throttle) if the wheel is receiving too many amps. The controller I mentioned is good for 40A continuous, so it should be fine as long as you don't run it up hills all the time, or if you use a CA to control it. And it also has the cruise control and ebrake features and your thumb throttle will work with it. However, the connectors are slightly different between this controller and the GM controller, so you will either need to solder the connections or create add your own connectors.

Offline kmleon77

  • Confirmed
  • Bachelor of Magic
  • ****
  • Posts: 102
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2011, 04:30:44 PM »
hi
thanks mike for this
fred
2 MP external controllers and 1 MP internal (avatar)
2 VTT for fun and one yuba to take my children to school
all this with 48V10Ah lipo batteries
waiting for MP3 : is it going to be more powerfull ?????

Offline o00scorpion00o

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 462
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2011, 07:32:01 PM »
I have peaked 75 amps through the pie, climbed a 16% mountain last Saturday and burned the hall sensors, but the motor survived which is incredible.

These are not the hills most people will encounter on a daily basis and the pie won't do those kind of hills on normal GM controllers, but most motors will burn at high power up such hills, or mountains. I was pumping 3kw in the pie for the last 2 miles, I started on a grade so steep it was very hard to get going because the front wheel kept rising! I cheated and drove the car up to the car park at the transmitter access road and used the pie for the last 2 miles because the gate is locked and I can't cycle up, without power!

Running 16S LiPo 60 volts it will do 32 mph max on level ground, using an Infineon adjusted to 40 amps battery and 75 amps phase.

It can take much more, this pie can take a lot of power, I estimate 5-7 kw peaks no problem!

You see once up to speed it takes around 1200 watts to maintain 32 mph that's about 20 amps on 60 volts. On 48 volts it was around 750-900 watts. But that was at 35 mph max.

If your voltage is high enough, that's is the only way it will draw more watts in general, so having a very high current set up is of no use if the pie has not got the voltage to allow it to get to speed where it will want more current to maintain more speed, more current will allow you to accelerate faster of course!

Some motors are wound more for higher speed and will draw more watts at higher speeds but will have a lot less torque, the pie is a slow motor but given 60 volts and a 40+ amp controller it will change your E-Biking experience forever at 32 mph. The acceleration is fantastic, and it will climb most hills with great ease!

The problem with the pie burning the hall sensors was the fact the motor was bogging down and couldn't spin fast enough where it's most efficient, so most of the energy was turning to heat, this is the trick with most motors that are being ran at a lot higher than rated power.

a bogging down of any motor under load will probably burn soon enough so this is the most important thing to remember!

I would love to see GM install a temperature sensor!

Sorry if I was rambling too much!

Offline MonkeyMagic

  • Cheeky Chimp
  • Technical Officer
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,041
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 03:13:57 AM »
I would love to see GM install a temperature sensor!

Can you sqeeze another 2 wires into the hub for a temp sensor?

Offline o00scorpion00o

  • Confirmed
  • Master of Magic
  • *****
  • Posts: 462
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 07:39:01 AM »
Not sure monkey, I didn't think about it when replacing the halls.

I don't have the controller to monitor the temps anyway.

Maybe when I eventually build a higher power system, I might use a Kelly controller.

This time my new build will be a proper bike designed to be electric and have proper dropouts and full suspension.

Check out greyborg frames, he is over on the es forums and has a newer design on the way!

It will be some time before I build something like that!

Offline DirtyGinge

  • Confirmed
  • PhD. Magic
  • ******
  • Posts: 614
  • Im just trying to find my niche.3 e-bikes is fine
Re: controller/more power
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 03:24:30 PM »
I think a temp sensor wont be a problem if you don't go too crazy with large phase wires, however I think the stock phase wires would probably have problems way before the requirement for a temp sensor, a bit chicken and egg problem.....
Infineon lyen edition 12 Fet
Goldenmotor Magic pie rear ....2000 Watt peak
oh yea.....Im too fat :)...but cute, oh yea, im cute