Cant get motor to run

[glenndk]

I have just received a Magic Pie 24v 50A controller today + throttle.. I have tried to connect it to my motor that only have three wires the green/blue/yellow. I also connected the throttle.. but when I power the controller up it beeps twice, there is light in the throttle but the wheel wont turn. I have tried turning it manually and give throttle but still wont work..  I have connected throttle as on the picture below.



I have also tried to connect the brown to Z and the yellow to R  but still no difference.

Anybody who might be able to help? 
sorry for the bad picture quality

[MonkeyMagic]

Hey Glenn

The 2 beeps indicates the controller is in 'sensorless mode' - when it does not detect hall sensors, or there is a failure.

Does your motor just have the phase wires green/blue/yellow?

If so, and it is not a GoldenMotor brand motor - then you may have to try different phase wire combinations. Try swapping the blue and green first, but when doing this (and even now when you say it is not working) only use a light throttle to prevent possible damage to the controller/wheel.

You will definately need to spin the wheel (or roll forward) first to start the wheel power, so when testing - spin the wheel and apply light throttle. Hopefully it is just the phase wiring configuration.

Do you have a picture of the motor?

MM

[glenndk]

i have now tried all combinations with the 3 phase wires going easy on the throttle but it wont run. Do I have to connect the yellow and brown wire from the throttle?

Picture of the motor


picture of label on motor

[glenndk]

http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/901-902-Guide.pdf
In this link at the bottom of the pdf it says something about motor phase calibration (only for none goldenmotor motors)

I don't have a break handle or cruise control to try this.. these items just short the wires?

[glenndk]

Now the motor run but not fast and the least bit of resistance will stop the wheel from spinning but I can hear the motor I still running even though the wheel is standing still, is this normal?

it works the same way with 3 combinations from motor to controller

Y -> G
G -> Y
B -> B


Y -> B
G -> G
B -> Y


Y -> Y
G -> B
B -> G

Anybody may experienced something like this with a non goldenmotor motor?

[MonkeyMagic]

Hi Glenn

There are really only 6 main possible combinations from what I have read. You reminded me of the motor phase calibration.

Just make sure you never try to put full throttle (or at least for longer than a second at most), as it could ruin the switching FET's in the controller.

Well at least you have seen some life !!

Have a look at the spreadsheet I attached, it came from an ES thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484

^^ See if that helps you out, and have a read of the many posts in ES forum that have this kind of general info.

And no it's not normal to hear the motor running when stationary... It does sound like you have the phase configuration to sort out.

Usually its 2 phase wires - thanks for the pics post back what you come up with

Good luck

MM

[glenndk]

I have tried all combos but there are not so many since the motor only has 3 wires.. I tried to find out a little bit more about the motor and it comes from a bike like the one they talk about here http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/1945-schwinn-protanium-speed.html

apparently this is the company that makes to motor
http://www.tongxin.net.cn/tongxin2.jpg

So I don´t really know what else I can do

[Bikemad]

Unfortunately there's some bad news, that particular motor is unlikely to work correctly with the GM controller because it is a sensorless geared motor, with a unidirectional clutch (freewheel device) incorporated inside the hub casing. This is why you can hear the motor running (in a backwards direction) without the wheel actually turning.
For the GM controller to work in sensorless mode, the motor must first be spun in the correct direction, but unfortunately this is impossible to do because of the internal freewheel.

The internal hubmotor transmits its power to the front wheel through a gearbox which is driven via the internal freewheel device in the same fashion as the pedals transmit their power via the chain to the rear wheel through the external freewheel in the gear cluster.
The internal freewheel device is fitted so that the wheel can turn easily on its own without having to drive the motor and internal gears when the motor is not being used, making it much easier to pedal without using electric power.

I'll see if I can explain why it won't work;
Try and imagine that the bikes pedals are a sensorless motor driving the rear wheel, but the motor (pedals) can only supply power to the wheel after you have started turning them manually. Spinning the rear wheel in a forward direction cannot physically turn the pedals to get them started, because the ratchet in the freewheel assembly prevents this from happening.

If you spin the wheel in the wrong direction, you would be able to get the motor (pedals) spinning fast enough to run happily in sensorless mode, but unfortunately the motor (pedals) is then running in the wrong direction. Regradless of how fast the motor (pedals) spin, it cannot transmit any power to the wheel because of the freewheel, and this is exactly what is happening within the hubmotor.

Your Protanium motor needs a suitable sensorless controller which is capable of starting the motor in the correct direction from a complete standstill, which the GM controller is not designed to do.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but hopefully you will now be able to understand why it's not working.

Check out this post for more details on the freewheel device.

Alan
 

[glenndk]

i had a fear that it might not be able to work after finding those links yesterday.. I have to buy new motor from goldenmotor.. Does all goldenmotor motors come with hall sensor thing? I was thinking about a motor like this
http://www.devi-motion.com/;jsessionid=07E126863BF50D52A21495CD85605BA2?__stateless=07E126863BF50D52A21495CD85605BA2

but if I bought this one would it still be able to work at 24v and then it can run faster if I change battery?
http://www.devi-motion.com/;jsessionid=07E126863BF50D52A21495CD85605BA2?__stateless=07E126863BF50D52A21495CD85605BA2




else this motor sounds like it can do it.
http://www.goldenmotor.cz/products/crystalyte-4010-zadni-bezkartacovy-motor-vypleteny-do-20-28-rafku/
 And I can see that they have listed some of the mp´s that work for this motor. But there is no sticker on my mp and where I bought it it only says BAC -24V-50A- CRUISE SPEED CONTROLLER
 http://www.devi-motion.com/;jsessionid=07E126863BF50D52A21495CD85605BA2?__stateless=07E126863BF50D52A21495CD85605BA2

Anyway thank you very much for the help

[Bikemad]

Glenn,

Unfortunately those links to devi-motion do not work correctly as they only link to the homepage itself.

Anyway, all of the GM hubmotors have hall sensors and will work fine with your BAC cruise controller, which can operate on 24, 36 or 48V without any problem.

At least this should answer some of your questions.

Alan
 

[glenndk]

Ok well thanks to you Allan & MonkeyMagic. Then I must buy my self a new motor next month when I get some money :S

[MonkeyMagic]

What better excuse to buy a new motor

Hehe I think you will be happier with something a bit more powerful anyway. I have a 180W hub bike here and it feel so embarrassed everytime I take that bike out lol it sounds like a cat dying