GoldenMotor.com Forum

General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: GM Canada on November 10, 2011, 02:12:02 AM

Title: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 10, 2011, 02:12:02 AM
Since there is no official topic on this motor, maybe it’s time to start one.

As posted in another thread I received two sample Magic Pie III Motors on Nov 4th 2011. These are sample motors and not all the functions work yet but they are a good example of what is to come. Since about January of 2010 there have been many rumors about the Magic Pie version three and it has been said many times since "They will be out in a few weeks". As you can see by the writing of this it is actually 10 months later and as far as I can tell the release has been pushed off at least until 2012 now. There are still tests being made, new ideas being put forth and improvements being planned and developed.

Of course in the best interest for Golden Motor I will only discuss what the current motors I have can do and will not speculate  much on what changes are being made and what is still being planned unless I am told it can be public knowledge.  Who really knows what the final result will be.

I think most people that have heard of the Magic Pie understand already that since its inception, the goal of the Magic Pie is that anyone could install a high quality electric bike conversion kit on their bike as easily as possible with a very clean and impressive final look.

At first look, even though it is still in development, It looks very promising that the MPIII is going to bring this goal to a reality.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask. As most in the forum would know I am not a technical guy. Also I am at a loss when it comes to details like fets, caps, sensors, etc. But I do have practical “hands on” experience. In the past two years I have done more ebike conversions then most people ever will do.  All of my conversions have been simple and quick. I don’t have the time for some of the elaborate conversions you see in the forum.  But I can easily judge if something is lighter, faster, quieter, smaller, easier or cooler looking.

I have build my first MPIII ebike, Let’s get the conversation started.

Gary

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/104.jpg)
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 10, 2011, 02:22:12 AM
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MagicPie3.jpg)

This promotional picture has alot of information.

30 percent more Climbing torque. This I can say without a doubt has been accomplisehed. I did a torque test video and the MPII internal would deliver about 800 watts peak, I am seeing 1200 watts and a 1297 peak on one take off. Take a look at this video to see the torque and hear the motor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5RtYeUmW1U

Easily replaceable controller. I have not attempted this yet. But the new controller location and hub design does make it look easy.

Better Heat Dissipating with self cooling fan. After that torque video I went back and forth over that same bridge 3 more times to see how hot the motor would get. I could clearly feel alot of warm air dissipating from the vents on the fan side of the motor.

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/057-1.jpg)

Water-proof Wiring set with silver plated plug-ins. The cables have been completly redone from end to end and the improvment in quality and ease of use is very good. More about this in my next post.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 10, 2011, 02:41:40 AM
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MagicPie3wiring.jpg)

This picture shows a new wire set design. Although the wireset I received does not look like this one the concept is the same. Each plug can only fit in the correct mated plug. This really simplifies the instalation removing any doubt of doing a correct hookup. There is only one wire thats extends from the motor. It splits into two wires. One goes to the battery and one all the way up to the handle bars. At this point it splits to four plugs where you can easily plug in your brake levers, control buttons and throttle.
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/061.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/033.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/034.jpg)

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: e-lmer on November 10, 2011, 09:13:31 PM
Raises hand to be among the first real customers.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MonkeyMagic on November 11, 2011, 09:16:50 AM
Hmmm I'm not really impressed with that massive interconnecting plug, it looks huge!!!
Why it couldn't be a waterproof IDC connector or something similar, way too much 'plug and play' in my opinion.

Unfortunate to say that if I end up getting this revision of the wheel, I'd be hacking up those muthas quick smart!

lots of cable ties.....

:D
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 13, 2011, 12:49:06 AM
I thought the same at first as well but since I don't have a dashboard to hide my wires behind like you have I have grown to like it. It sure simplifies things. Now it's even going to be color coded so any buffoon can plug it together without mistakes. Of course too much honey wine may cause problems still  ;)

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MPIII_Color_Coded_cable.jpg)

Not sure why the outside plugs would be different colours though as they are identical brake lever plugs. Looks like a photoshopped picture anyway.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 13, 2011, 12:55:36 AM
Magic Pie III Unboxing video.

From cutting the box to test spinup, everything a person would need to know to setup a Magic Pie III in 2 minutes and forty seconds. Follow the link!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVsQs4TwJHk

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MelbourneRider on November 16, 2011, 10:40:57 AM
Hi all, I'm a long time forum reader but a first time poster. It's a really good quality video you got there Gary! And nice floor board you got there on the video!  ;)

Have you got more updates on the pie3?
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 17, 2011, 11:04:57 PM
Does the Magic Pie III come with External Controller?

There may be one someday. But at this time there is no reason to build it. The main differences between MPII and MPIII is in the internal version. Better more powerfull internal controller. Upgraded all in one wireset, etc. My next sea order leaving is all MPII external controller kits as there is no plans fro MP3 external at this time.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 17, 2011, 11:17:15 PM
Hi all, I'm a long time forum reader but a first time poster. It's a really good quality video you got there Gary! And nice floor board you got there on the video!  ;)

Have you got more updates on the pie3?

lol, that's the floor behind my desk in my office. I spin my chair around a video tape then spin back and upload :) I have taken many pictures on this floor as well. I guess those will be easy to tell if someone steals them for their own use.  ;)

I have a few quick take off videos to show the peak amps. I'll upload those tonight I hope. Business and work are interfering with my MPIII hugging time :)

The current word is no MPIII will ship until at least Jan 2012 :(

Gary

Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Nightwind on November 20, 2011, 05:47:25 PM
Gary have you connect a pedelec to your mp3? or is that not possible with internal controller?
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 20, 2011, 09:46:58 PM
There is a plug for the pedelec on the MP3. I briefly mention it 56 seconds in on my unboxing video. I have noticed that for a rear MP III setup the cable will be fine in a front MP III setup the cable may have to be extended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVsQs4TwJHk

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 20, 2011, 09:49:12 PM
I could not resist!!

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/005-1.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/001-1.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/006-1.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/007-1.jpg)

Dare I say the worlds first Dual Drive MPIII. Its now turning into some sort of super bike, two motors three batteries... WooHoo!!!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MelbourneRider on November 21, 2011, 04:33:41 AM
Wow Gary! That's just super!

I bet we all want one!! I can't wait till I got my hands on pie3 but with (much less) battery packs...
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MonkeyMagic on November 21, 2011, 02:04:41 PM
I could not resist!!

Dare I say the worlds first Dual Drive MPIII. Its now turning into some sort of super bike, two motors three batteries... WooHoo!!!

Gary

Curse you Gary !@!!@!
Dang you and that infernal generous pocket of yours!!

All you need now is a VAWT or a few mice on generator wheels inside your Bob trailer and you can do intercontinental deliveries!! :D

I do need to know 1 thing regarding your install... And that's how you pulled this one off with the wife...
I'm assuming it went something along the lines of:

Gary- "Yeah honey Magic Pie III, to obtain the maximum power you need 3 batteries hence the 3 part..."
Wife- "Ohhhhhh of course!, Silly me Gary you just continue being so super"
Gary- "Muhuhhahahahaa" *whizzes away at 2400watts*

;)

Edit>> How did I not notice the front wheel!!!!
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MonkeyMagic on November 21, 2011, 02:35:34 PM
Sorry just 1 more because I'm so jealous....


Officer: "Excuse me sir, what is all this business on the end of your bicycle?"
Gary: "I like to keep my soup in there...."
Officer: "Oh good idea, on your way"
Gary: "Muhauhahahahaa" *whizzes away at 2400watts*

Looks amazing Gary, you must be proud of your new baby :D

It surely must be getting difficult to decide what to ride each day!
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 22, 2011, 12:11:13 AM
Sorry just 1 more because I'm so jealous....


Officer: "Excuse me sir, what is all this business on the end of your bicycle?"
Gary: "I like to keep my soup in there...."
Officer: "Oh good idea, on your way"
Gary: "Muhauhahahahaa" *whizzes away at 2400watts*

Looks amazing Gary, you must be proud of your new baby :D

It surely must be getting difficult to decide what to ride each day!

lol, very funny! I really don't have trouble deciding. This is the main ride now for sure. Its kinda like when you buy a new car or motorcycle. When your at home you position yourself by the window so you can look at it :)

The other day I went to the arena with my daughter on the back of the tandem. Its still a blast and really fun for two but it's not my "Townie" :)

Gary

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/ExtMP2Build082.jpg)
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 22, 2011, 12:20:55 AM

Curse you Gary !@!!@!


I have to admit, sometimes when I am in the shop working on my bike I find myself thinking "hahahahaha, wait 'til Monkey see this!!!". Sometimes I even say it out loud. The other day my son was in the shop and he overheard me and asked "Who's Monkey?". Of course I replied. Remember that crazy bike in the forum with the multiple video screens, dvr, defensive water jets, etc... that guy..

Still think you have the coolest build ever. How can you be jealous of my bike when yours have everything x10 :) There are more original ideas on your bike then any other I have ever seen!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: rageon09 on November 23, 2011, 11:39:05 AM
Hi guys,

I've been lurking here for a couple of weeks so I guess I should chime in now.

I'm starting on a custom BTR style electric bike and the biggest question is... should I get the MPII now or wait till next year and get the MPIII when it comes out (maybe Jan but might be later right Gary?)

The new version does seem loads better!
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 23, 2011, 07:40:44 PM
I perfect answer for you...

"It Depends"

If you are looking for a easy, quick and clean setup. With a motor powerfull enough for street use and fun offroad. I would go MP3. The MP3 looks to have an easier setup for replacing the controller plus it has an excelant method of cooling. So it does look promising that it will be more reliable then the MP2.

If you are looking for something with the same amount of power with quick and easy replacement of the controller I would go MP2 External. If the controller ever fails its a simple method of unplugging the old one and plugging in the new one. I regularily carry an extra controller so if I or anyone I am riding with ever has an issue we can be rolling again in 5 minutes. Also if you wanted to take it a step higher with a more powerfull third party controller an external system makes this easier to do that.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: rageon09 on November 23, 2011, 07:55:50 PM
Gary, Gary... "It depends" is not an answer at all! But thanks for trying to explain it to me.

I guess having an external controller is "safer" in the sense that if it fails I can replace it easily. But I really like the new fan and wiring of the MPIII. Also the new version is supposed to be more reliable right? I guess I can wait a month of so. MPIII is exclusively internal control? Any reason why that's the case?
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 24, 2011, 01:33:58 AM
I made a quick video of how I made my Magic Pie III Dual drive Harness. After completing this I realized the same thing could be done to make a dual drive with MP2 internal motors. This is a much cleaner setup for dual drive. What was I thinking before? Anyway I am sure some wires are not nessasary to split and some will probably say my method may cause problems. All I can say is its working perfectly :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrMFDoWwP7A

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 24, 2011, 03:09:45 AM
when it comes out (maybe Jan but might be later right Gary?)


Could be January, Could be later. All I know is I have a sea order that just left there with no MPIII on board again  :(

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Nightwind on November 24, 2011, 04:06:05 AM
nice connection but is it weather proof? Have you ask GM to make a console like or better then bionx g2 for there new and shinny MP3? ::)
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 25, 2011, 12:10:23 AM
nice connection but is it weather proof? Have you ask GM to make a console like or better then bionx g2 for there new and shinny MP3? ::)

The tape job is pretty good and the cable hangs in a way that it would be difficult for water to get in. I guess if it was submerged for a while the water may get in but if that happened I think there would be other things to worry about :)

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MonkeyMagic on November 25, 2011, 11:34:15 AM
Its kinda like when you buy a new car or motorcycle. When your at home you position yourself by the window so you can look at it :)

LOL! I thought I was the only one that did that.... Haha I seriously think I did more looking at my bike than building it. Considering much of the time it was super cold winter, I remember looking at it eyeing off where I could mount my gear while I was in front of the heater the whole time haha

The other day I went to the arena with my daughter on the back of the tandem. Its still a blast and really fun for two but it's not my "Townie" :)

Gary

Yes the Townie looks comfy as! I'm so wondering what it would be like if you went on a massive ride and see how far you can get with your uber battery pack, maybe the wife can pick you up where you end up? :D

But its probably too cold now to do that....

Also, was there any access for squeezing wires inside the frame? Or no room...

cheers
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Andrew on November 25, 2011, 05:02:45 PM
Gary, you have a nice growing collection of video clips. Has anyone ever told you that you sound just like Bob Ross? ;D
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 25, 2011, 11:21:56 PM


Yes the Townie looks comfy as! I'm so wondering what it would be like if you went on a massive ride and see how far you can get with your uber battery pack, maybe the wife can pick you up where you end up? :D

But its probably too cold now to do that....

Also, was there any access for squeezing wires inside the frame? Or no room...

cheers

The Townie is very comfy. I don't think I will ever go back to leaning forward with all my weight on my hands anymore. Not as the main ride anyway.

Yes it is getting cold. Today was nice in the afternoon. But morning rides are on damp cold and busy roads. Geting a tad dangerous.

The cables that go though the frame go through plastic pieces that are molded to fit in the frame. They can be easy removed leaving a larger hole and some cabling could probably be threaded though the frame. Time is my enemy and could not attempt it when I did the bike. Maybe over the winter I'll give it shot.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Nightwind on November 26, 2011, 09:28:49 PM
OMG Gary the Chinese copy monkey's bike design


(http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/pu3sk.ugpv2/v/vspfiles/photos/500%20Watt%20Electric%20MotorScooter-2.jpg)


WEEKEND SALE: $649.95
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 28, 2011, 12:16:42 AM
OMG Gary the Chinese copy Monkey's bike design

WEEKEND SALE: $649.95

Not even close! All that for 649.95. The quality must be outstanding!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 28, 2011, 12:21:21 AM
Shot some video of some stop/starts on the ride home from work the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BQdrF3KHLU

Sorry to shoot in the dark but thats life when you go to work in the dark and come home from work in the dark!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on November 28, 2011, 08:26:44 PM
The videos keep flowing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofXCj_Dd10U

This one shows in detail how to replace the internal Magic Pie III Controller. Actually what I did was take off both front and back wheels and swap the controllers from one wheel to the other. Since the MP III is still in development and yet to be released I cleared this one with GM HQ before posting it. They told me as long as there are no closeups of the controller it will be fine. They viewed it last night and said it was ok to go public with it. In the future I will create a "Look Inside" video and show everything in detail. But not until the final product is officially released.

Almost 8 minutes long though. I am not sure if anyone can last the whole 8 minutes but I guess if you had to replace the controller you would :)

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Nightwind on November 29, 2011, 03:04:11 AM
Lol I just watch that b4 I came here. What happen to the big controller?  ::)
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Leslie on December 28, 2011, 05:44:17 PM
Cool the power issue has been solved.

Is the circlip still cutting into the wiring inside the axles? Replace it with a tight wrap of electrical tape and she be apples.

I removed all those clips and used tape and my wheel and cables is still looking tough and reliabe.

The replacable controller with fan awesome.

And how is it to fix hall sensors?  The last thing to make easy to fix "hall sensors" will really make this the bees knees.


I tried a new controller and my single drive MP 1.2 would flip the bike if I sat on the seat.  My pack was getting warm until I pulled a 20 amp shunt out of the controller it could get me up that hill now @ 20 amps but not as effective like youre there..  @ 40 amps Id race up that like a bat out hell.

The MP has massive torque potential.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Leslie on December 28, 2011, 05:57:50 PM
I think I had the old internal controller running at 2500 watts but it was really sluggish on the take offs.  Lucky to pull 250 watts.  Then at about 12kph then the MP would kick in nice.

Even @ 2500 watts I wasnt getting the same hard core action youre getting there.  I think my single pie with 40A controller @40A might just pull into a close second place behind your dual drive there Gary.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on December 30, 2011, 02:13:43 AM
The circlip is still there but it seems different then before. It is more like a u shaped wire and does a nice job of holding the wire. I found the main reason the wires were getting damaged was where they came out of the axle. The hole had very sharp edges. Now the MP3 wire comes out the controller cover. No more pulling wires through the axle. It seems the axle on the 901 wheel style where you still pull the wires through the axle have now been smoothed and no longer so sharp as before.

There still seem to be constant improvments. Rarely are any announced. Someone pointed out something to me and now I have experienced it as well. Now the spokes seem to be tightened properly and the spokes nuts are secured with some sort of sticky material. I assume to keep them from getting loose. I had to strip a 901 wheel the other day and when I was done my fingers were all stuck together from the "new goo".

Even more good news is I just received another pair of MP3's to review! I guess we will call these ones MP3 Pre-release v2. Problem is I still have no usb cable to cut the regen on the front motor and its all ice an snow here. Damn winter! Could be above zero this weekend :)

Gary

Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on January 12, 2012, 03:37:17 AM
I have received another pair of front and rear MPIII. From what I understand these are what will be released and are awesome. I done more video and projects and they will come out soon. One thing worth mentioning is the finish on the motor. When they did the MP1 the finish was sort of a powder black appearance, nothing real shiny. When they did the MP2 the finish was upgraded a lot to a shiny black. Now they seem very shiny and very well made with few imperfections. I certainly noticed the difference as they came out of the box this time.

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/017.jpg)

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MelbourneRider on January 12, 2012, 04:18:54 AM
Gary,

Does that latest pie (on the picture) sit on a 26inch rim? It is just that that pie looks bigger and the spokes look almost radial.

Do you know if Pie 2 or Pie 3 comes in 24inch rim? or has anyone tried to install it on a 24inch rim?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: blompod on January 12, 2012, 04:52:09 AM
Still no idea when the 3 will be released to the public, Im hanging out to get one. Does the rear kit come with a threaded rear free wheel cassette? or do you supply your own? 135mm between dropout to dropout is needed right? then just spin on an 7 or 8 speed cassette?
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Bikemad on January 12, 2012, 04:37:46 PM
Does the rear kit come with a threaded rear free wheel cassette? or do you supply your own? 135mm between dropout to dropout is needed right? then just spin on an 7 or 8 speed cassette?

They do not come with a freewheel, but my existing 7 speed unit threaded straight on without needing any additional spacers, although I suspect an 8 speed freewheel might need an extra washer to keep the frame away from the sprocket to prevent the chain from rubbing.
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/PB211711.JPG)

Does that latest pie (on the picture) sit on a 26inch rim? It is just that that pie looks bigger and the spokes look almost radial.

I pretty sure that Gary's wheels are 26".

The spoke pattern on the MPIII is exactly the same as the MPII:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Compare.JPG)
                            MPII                                                MPIII

Although the distance between the two spoke flanges is slightly narrower on the MPIII:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Flanges.JPG)

Do you know if Pie 2 or Pie 3 comes in 24inch rim? or has anyone tried to install it on a 24inch rim?

Although a 24" rim is not advertised, this picture from the GM website looks to me as though it has a 24" rim fitted on the front wheel:
(http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/mpgallery/images/0037.jpg)

Assuming you can find some spokes of the correct length, and a suitable 36 hole rim, it should be relatively simple to build your own 24" wheel.



Alan
 
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MelbourneRider on January 12, 2012, 10:02:27 PM
Thanks Alan!

The top-down photo of the pie2 next to pie3 is really great for comparing the two. I can't wait to get my hands on the pie3.

I was thinking to build a custom 24inch wheel for my pie3 project. I am thinking to place a LiFePO4  battery vertically behind the seat post in a custom made battery slot. 26inch is not so great but 24inch is preferrable.

Cheers,
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on January 13, 2012, 12:59:46 AM
Gary,

Does that latest pie (on the picture) sit on a 26inch rim? It is just that that pie looks bigger and the spokes look almost radial.

Do you know if Pie 2 or Pie 3 comes in 24inch rim? or has anyone tried to install it on a 24inch rim?

Cheers!

Hi

As Alan stated my Townie has 26 inch wheels. The picture is at an odd angle and does make it look oversized.

Of course it does come in 24 inch. But 24 inch is a very uncommon size for people to order. I regularily stock all motor types (901,902,MP2) in all sizes except 18 inch. I have only ever sold one 18 inch so the demand is very low. The 16 and 24 Inch I only stock afew front and rear of each as it they are the second least wheels ordered. If someone orders one I still have one in stock and order another asap. Then the inventory climbs from there. By far the most comon is the 26 inch rear and thats about 90 percent of my stock.

So the point of telling you all that is unless you are ordering direct from China you should contact whoever you intend to buy it from ASAP so they will have stock in your size when the release comes. If your looking for 26 inch rear its a pretty good bet you can get one easily on the release date. A 24 inch will be a little tricky. Even if for example I have several front and rear 24 inch coming people may pre order them while they are on the water and then they will be out of stock before they arrive. Then there will be no more until the next sea order.
 
I have had quite a few pre orders and I am sure once I announce I have MP III on the water the pre-orders will increase.

I hope this makes sence.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on January 13, 2012, 01:08:48 AM
Still no idea when the 3 will be released to the public, Im hanging out to get one. Does the rear kit come with a threaded rear free wheel cassette? or do you supply your own? 135mm between dropout to dropout is needed right? then just spin on an 7 or 8 speed cassette?

I answered this one over here yesterday

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=4159.msg24111#msg24111

The freewheel is a separate item. I just put up a new video yesterday on installing an 8 speed freewheel on an MP III here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o31OwsCzxyI&list=UUv3KWOO85wyf-opGp2gn-yA&index=1&feature=plcp

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on January 13, 2012, 01:15:10 AM


The spoke pattern on the MPIII is exactly the same as the MPII:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Compare.JPG)
                            MPII                                                MPIII

Although the distance between the two spoke flanges is slightly narrower on the MPIII:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Flanges.JPG)

Alan

HEY! Whos floor is that? I have a copyright on that floor pattern and colour!

 ;D

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on January 18, 2012, 02:37:33 PM
The snow left for a few days and it has been warm enough for rides to work 3 out of five days last week

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/011-3.jpg)

The two MP3's I have this time are very robust. I can not believe how much fun it is to ride with two of these beauties. It also seems like there is a slight speed increase now. With the first two MP3's I had it seemed they were about as fast as the MP2 with the GM external controller. The max speed seemed around 40 kph. Now with these two the speed seems to be about 44 kph. I keep noticing I am rolling along at 44 to 46 KPH and realizing I am running on flat ground. Of course for legal purposes these motors will have to be pulled back with the USB cable to stay within the legal limits for road use ;)

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on January 18, 2012, 03:22:37 PM
Before

Townie 8 Speed with internal cabling. The cables run inside the frame for part of thier run.

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/039.jpg)

After Conversion.

Added two Internal Magic Pie III Motors, a rack with three batteries, lights and a Cycle Analyst. I Built this bike once with my first two pre-release MP3 Motors. It was a quick build with little effort to keep the "clean look".

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/001-1.jpg)

Then I completly stripped it when I received my second set of MP3 pre-release motors. Since the wiring harness has changed nothing is compatible with the frist two motors so everything had to be replaced, motors, levers, buttons, trottle, etc.

This time I took alot of care to give it as clean of a look as possible. I routed all the wires through the frame along side or the original cableling.

I think it turned out pretty good and I absolutly love it!

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MP3Townie008.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MP3Townie005.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MP3Townie003.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MP3Townie002.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/017.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/016-1.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/014.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/009-1.jpg)

After looking at that last picture of my bike I can see I should level the battery rack as it was before. I think it looks better that way.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Pwd on January 18, 2012, 04:48:14 PM
That looks great Gary, that bike looks clean. I definitely won't be using my Magic Pies until the spring we just got 20cm of snow and its -18C out right now haha.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on January 18, 2012, 06:22:42 PM
Thanks Paul,

We were supposed to get 2 inches last night and 2 more today, Nothing yet though, it all seems to be missing us so far :) Next week they are predicting above zero celcius temperatures again. More rides to work in January, Woohoo!'

My fingers and toes are crossed!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Just on February 03, 2012, 03:14:17 PM
What the weight of the new Magic-III. Have it becoame heavier than Magic-II?
What's weight of the Magic-III for 16" wheel (rear and front versions)?
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 04, 2012, 04:20:50 PM

According to the promotional material the MP III Kit is 11 kg. I don't know what the various sizes are in weight but I imagine I'll be weighing quite a few shortly.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 04, 2012, 04:26:17 PM
;D ;D ;D Magic Pie III Arrives in Canada February 6th!  ;D ;D ;D

With rail time and customs we should be shipping by Valentine's Day!

Although this order is quite large we also had many pre-orders and a few sizes are out of stock all ready before we even receive it.

If you want your slice of the pie order without delay. Don't miss out!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Just on February 04, 2012, 04:49:22 PM
"According to the promotional material the MP III Kit is 11 kg" - is this including a battery of 5.5kg?
"I'll be weighing quite a few shortly" - look forward to for the updates
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 04, 2012, 04:52:37 PM
No this does not include the battery. Also the battery weight is more like 8kg the 5.5kg I do know when I ship a MP2 kit with battery the sealed box weight is 20 kg.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Just on February 04, 2012, 05:08:13 PM
Waw! Just a wheel with a controller weigh 11kg! Whole my bike weighs 12.5kg! How is the kit so heavy? The Magic-II wheel's weight is just about 7.5kg (according to GM site). Is the new controller weight 3.5kg? Too heavy... How so? How many Amps can it provide in peaks and during a continuous operation? Anyway, with such weight, it seems to me this kit is not for the mountain bicycles...
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 04, 2012, 05:38:22 PM
I don't make them. I just weigh them.

If you are going to believe everything China says you will be mislead quite often.

I did a lot of tests and uploaded many pictures and links to videos on the MP III into this thread. Most of the information anyone would ever need is in this thread already. On take off the peak watts is over 1200. Once you get rolling this drops like any other motor.

If you don't understand why a Magic Pie 2 is 10kg then you obviously have never had one in your hands. If the MP III is 11kg then so be it.

Most likely these numbers are the shipping weight anyway.

Even the Pro 901 boxed up to go is 9kg. What motors do you use and how much do they weigh.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Just on February 04, 2012, 06:06:50 PM
The Cyclone's 1200W (2500W in peaks) kit weighs 5.5kg. It's not a hub motor, but a mid one.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 04, 2012, 06:20:39 PM
Sounds like you are compairing apples and oranges. They are not the same.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Just on February 04, 2012, 06:26:52 PM
apples and oranges... the key is performance!
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 04, 2012, 08:15:33 PM
True performance is an important factor. But there are others. One motor is shaped like a car starter and the other like a pancake. Lets not forget why the Magic Pie was invented. It was designed as an all in one simple to set up kit. If you have seen my unboxing video of the MP III you can see how simple it is to hook up and how few wires will end up strung along the bike. The Magic Pie III gives it a simple clean look. In most opinions it is a startlingly attractive look as well.

I am also sure you have read many threads on the performance of the External MP2. if you  Run with our external controller it is a perfect match for most riders. It is also great for running with third party controllers like the Speed junkies do over as ES. Some are running them at 5kw or even more.

Don't forget the weights I am quoting you are packaged shipping weights. If you subtract the box, the rim and the spokes I am sure the weight is much less. I actually have never weighed most items individually. Just the total box weight. I will keep this in mind and try to determine some exact weights in the future. I would assume a box and packaging could weigh a kg. A rim a little less then a kg. The spokes seem heavy too.

Gary 
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: e-lmer on February 05, 2012, 03:21:28 PM
There is a direct relationship between weight and power.

I don't mean power in the electrical sense they
cite talking about the motor, exactly.

In order to accelerate my lard-butt from zero to
some speed you have to apply torque.
You can increase torque in two ways.

1: increase the moment arm of the motor
    (with a larger radius to the magnets) and
    increase the structural weight and
     rotational inertia.

2) Use gearing to increase take-off speed then
     change the gear ratio to get speed, at a cost of
      more noise, complication, and frictional loss of
      power.

I prefer the simplicity of a direct drive, but that is
just how I roll.  A 116kg doesn't worry much about
 5kg more to get extra power.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Just on February 05, 2012, 05:03:43 PM
The issue is not in the body weight, but in the vehicle's one... As bicycle is lighter as easier drive it... If just the motor + controller (even without the battery) get the bicycle twice heavier... It seems this wheel is good for the heavy old-style bi-cycles or for tri- or quad- ones, but not for the modern foldable or light-weight mountain bicycles... But, you know, as many persons as many opinions... 
Title: Magic Pie III - Tandem - Hydraulic Brakes
Post by: Mago77 on February 06, 2012, 02:35:58 PM
By the end of spring I plan to eAssist my Tandem with a Magic Pie III ...

Show-stopper or not?
Aluminium Frame if that's a Problem.
140mm rear fork that is standard for tandem.
203mm hydraulic disc brakes (I cannot imagine to ride a tandem without those brakes)

Is a front wheel drive an option...for such a weight?

Feasible or not?
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Bikemad on February 07, 2012, 03:33:50 AM

Marcel, Aluminium frames are more prone to breakage around the dropout area caused by the tremendous twisting force of the axle, and it is therefore advisable to use some form of torque arm to prevent this from occurring.

Although front wheel drive is obviously an option, it is not one that I would recommend on a tandem, as the high torsional load acting directly on the fork's dropouts could eventually result in their failure over time due to metal fatigue.

Take a look at Gary's excellent post (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3571.0) showing the installation of a rear Magic Pie on a tandem, and the use of torque arms to prevent the axle from turning within the rear dropouts on the steel frame.

Alan
 
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Mago77 on February 07, 2012, 06:02:52 AM
Thanks Bikemad,
I will certainly consider the torque arm, I had a look at Gary's tandem, that's a nice weldone job.
For the front fork, I have an MTB tandem for soft off road but the suspension fork is a RockShok Argyle with a 20mm axle,  and a 110mm hub spacing (no droup out).  http://www.sram.com/fr/rockshox/products/argyle-r

I know I will have to find somme reed switches, but what about the 203mm brakes?.
Marcel
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Bikemad on February 09, 2012, 02:43:18 AM

Regarding the 203mm brake discs, I estimate there would be about 23mm between the inside of the disc and the hub itself, but I'm not sure if that gap will be sufficient to accommodate a hydraulic calliper if it's a dual piston type.

With smaller diameter discs, the clearance will be is reduced by approximately 7mm due to the thickness of the mounting flange on the combined cooling fan/disc mounting assembly shown in the attached photo.

Alan
 
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 11, 2012, 03:11:30 AM
The issue is not in the body weight, but in the vehicle's one... As bicycle is lighter as easier drive it... If just the motor + controller (even without the battery) get the bicycle twice heavier... It seems this wheel is good for the heavy old-style bi-cycles or for tri- or quad- ones, but not for the modern foldable or light-weight mountain bicycles... But, you know, as many persons as many opinions...

The Magic Pie is not good for Mountain bikes? What about these?

My Wife's mountain Bike. At least that's what I call it :) This bike is excellent in the bush on some rough muddy trails. A lot of fun, great for jumps etc.

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/ExtMP2Build085.jpg)

Then there is My TRI-PIE. This bike is all about torque and take off. It really is an amazing amount of torque. 1000's of kilometres no issues.

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/TRI-PIE.jpg)

The Magic Pie is also great for my Tandem bike. Anyone that goes for a ride with me on this can't believe the power of just one motor.

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/ExtMP2Build082.jpg)

I would say Magic Pie motors are suitable for many styles of bikes. To say Magic Pies are not good for Mountain bikes is not correct in my opinion. Actually for an all around bike I think the full suspension Mountain bikes are the best conversion for Magic Pies. Well except for my Townie I guess :)

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/MP3Townie007.jpg)

Now a lightweight aluminum folding bike. Maybe not. But pretty much any other bike is fine. These are my four current rides. I have cut my personal collection of ebikes down to these four. Well and two Shrinkers. But who is counting :)

BTW the first 3 pictures are all MP2 externals and I will be selling the motors off of them soon. Gotta go MP III all the way now!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 20, 2012, 04:37:13 AM
Took the Bike out for a Mid February MUD ride. Normally this area would be all snow and Ice. We are having a very mild winter this year!

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/FEBRUARY192012MUDRIDE007.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/FEBRUARY192012MUDRIDE006.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/FEBRUARY192012MUDRIDE010.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/FEBRUARY192012MUDRIDE012.jpg)

Video too..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epfwXtlVLyA&feature=email&email=comment_received

Last time all that MUD was on me!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: spy70 on February 27, 2012, 02:16:28 PM
Hello Gary, is the MPIII in stock? Or always preorder-able?
See you
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on February 27, 2012, 02:27:57 PM
Hello Gary, is the MPIII in stock? Or always preorder-able?
See you

Yes

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: spy70 on February 27, 2012, 03:38:06 PM
Wowww I missed this great news.

Many thanks Gary for this fast answer!
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: AussieCruzer on April 02, 2012, 01:15:00 PM

''If you don't understand why a Magic Pie 2 is 10kg then you obviously have never had one in your hands. If the MP III is 11kg then so be it.

Most likely these numbers are the shipping weight anyway.''

Gary

I just weighed my Magic Pie III on the supplied 26"wheel, it's 8.95kg.

Rupert.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on May 30, 2012, 03:38:39 AM
Just thought I would toss in a few pictures of my next conversion. Bought it today, picking it up tomorrow. This one is going to be special!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Bikemad on June 07, 2012, 12:19:29 AM
(http://www.goldenmotor.com/e-Bike-DIY/mpgallery/images/0058.jpg)

It looks like someone's been busy recently, haven't they Gary?

Unfortunately mine's still waiting for the battery packs, lights and wiring to be sorted:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/P5041903.JPG)

My custom LiPo battery packs are slowly taking shape, I'm hoping to be able to carry two packs, a lightweight 29.6V 5Ah pack and a heavier one that can be run as either 25.9V 10Ah or 51.8V 5Ah.  I've given it a quick run round the garden with the 29.6V 5Ah LiPo pack and it seems pretty good so far.
I'm still anxious to try it with the higher voltage pack to see if the MPIII will be able to lift the front wheel. ;D

Alan
 
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Rodmiami on June 11, 2012, 02:53:38 PM
Gary , are you using a thumb throttle since the three speed shifter is twist ? Gary you are costing me money . I just ordered the bike and will start stripping down my beach cruiser MP for the conversion . I have a twist throttle so I might move the shifter to the left side of the handle bar . The bike should be here next week . Mine is suppose to come with a disk brake on the front which should work with my MP2 and the offset front wheel that drives me crazy . I'll keep you posted . Rod
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on June 12, 2012, 01:51:46 AM
Ok You caught me! Theres no Hiding from you guys! Here are some more pictures. I'm still working on it when I have time. Too much stuff on the handle bars I need to add another bar. At first I had the thumb throttle, I switched to twist to get more of a motorcycle feel. I moved the shifter to the other side, the numbers are upside down but thats no big deal. I also changed the seat, niot as comfy as it looks and alot of interference with the battery rack. Still tweaking. It will keep improving.

Gary

(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal024.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal022.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal020.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal018.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal016.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal007.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal005.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal004.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal002.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal4.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal3.jpg)
(http://goldenmotor.ca/pictures/GoldenMotorCanada/Cannibal2.jpg)
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Lionelt on July 21, 2012, 10:35:55 AM
Nice Bike Gary  (but you can hide cables into front fork tube)

I see you have not caliper on front fork, same problem like my Chopper E-Nirve, (the frame is same for cannibal and switchblade), not possible to have front brake disc on this old frame !

the new frame has original front brake disc.

Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on July 28, 2012, 11:26:26 AM
In Canada it is not available with the disk brake. I tried to order directly from the US distributer. Even they will not ship it to Canada. I had arranged to have one added to the tubes with my metal fabricator friends but at the last moment I decided its not needed. Regen on the front wheel is enough and the coaster brake on the back is strong. I have even made the rear tire "squeal" when braking. It actually scared me as I though a car was screeching to a stop behind me. To my surprise there were no cars behind me. The sound came from my back tire. The odd thing about the disk brake is it seems to be on the opposite side of the wheel then all other bikes.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Rodmiami on July 29, 2012, 03:41:43 PM
 Lionelt , if you did not see my MP2 Nirve conversion . Here are my pictures . I will do the disk brake thing when I am up for opening the motor to reverse the rotation of the wheel . Rodmiami
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Ingwar on September 13, 2012, 02:39:19 PM
I want to upgrade from MP2 to MP3. But I still doubt whether there are enough reasons for such a change. As  far as I understand from various posts and information on http://www.goldenmotor.ca - MP3 in comparison with MP2 is "quieter with more power", it has cooling fan and new set of connectors. Unfortunately there is no information on some signficant issues: weight of MP3 in comparison with MP2, how GM managed to increase the power up to 50%, has the power consumption changed in comparison with MP2, has the speed changed in comparison with MP2? Gary, BikeMad and other happy owners of MP3 please share the  information. Thanks in advance.
   
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Morgen 3Eman on September 13, 2012, 05:47:04 PM
Sorry, my experience with the  MP3 on 48 Volts has not been that much fun.  If these guys ever get to understand the value of build quality, they have a great potential product.  It is a brilliant design plagued  with cheap components and assembly.  I have to wonder how many pennies  management they think they are saving by using 60Volt rated capacitors in circuits stressed with 58 Volt actual applied power. 

They need to visit FoxConn...Then they could see how to make real money with high build quality goods. 

TTFN,
Dennis



Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Ingwar on September 13, 2012, 07:02:16 PM
Dennis it's a pity that your experience was not as exciting as it should. I know that there are quaility issues - for example the connectors and the cables on MP2 could be made much much better.
As for FoxConn - it's not so brilliant as you think - mine experience with IPad2 regrettably shows it (the glass just came off from the body) - sorry for offtopic   
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on September 19, 2012, 09:44:42 AM
Yes but for that price you can't afford Foxcon qaulity!
But the quality is still good for that price!
So I love the Magic Pie III........
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Morgen 3Eman on September 19, 2012, 08:45:50 PM
Hi MP3focuspower,

I spent a couple of decades in the semiconductor manufacturing business, where I learned one lesson over and over: Quality improvements reduce manufacturing costs and increase income.   Saving a few pennies on lower rated capacitors and a few dimes on grade 25 bearings instead of grade 10 is costing GM income opportunities.  The MP3 line is brilliantly designed, and management decisions like these are killing its reputation, and its future.  Ask Kia and Hyundai how quality improvements affected their ability to sell cars in the US and become the fastest growing import  brand name. 

TTFN,
Dennis
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on September 20, 2012, 08:45:23 PM
Yes I agree with you!
But I think when they use better components the price will go up?

I am also into RC cars yes I am only buying good stuff (Chinese stuff only smoke hahaha:-) ).
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Ingwar on September 30, 2012, 05:33:17 PM
I've already made a post on MP2 and MP3 comparison but nobody seems to notice it (I've even written a letter to Gary but he didn't answer). I ask the the owners of MP3 to share the  information on such signficant issues as:
Weight of MP3 in comparison with MP2?
Has the power consumption changed in comparison with MP2?
Has the speed changed in comparison with MP2?
How GM managed to increase the power up to 50% (1000W to 1500W) and climbing torque up to 30%?
Thanks for your answers in advance.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on September 30, 2012, 10:14:59 PM
I Answer a lot of email of my phone while at work. If the answer is easy I quickly respond if possible. When people ask me multiple questions I usually can't get to it until later when I am on my desktop. At that point the email is most likely many emails back. Maybe even hundreds back mixed with spam and other nonsense. I usually scan back through my email trying to pick out the ones I have not responded to but this can be quite difficult at times. Your post does look familiar but I seem to recall a lot more questions.

Most of your questions can be answered by reading the product description or details in the pictures. There is also help in my FAQ.

Try this one.
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/FAQ/questions.php?questionid=4

As for 1500 watts. I have heard this a few times, usually when someone is also saying they can be run on a 60 volt battery. Both statements are incorrect. As far as I know from my own experiences as soon as anyone uses and battery greater then a 48 volt battery the controller fries instantly. The highest Watts I have seen one MP3 draw on My Cycle Analyst is around 1250 watts.

Also from my own experience the increase in power is substantial. There is some comparison talk in this video. its a little long and boring but does have some interesting facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5RtYeUmW1U&list=UUv3KWOO85wyf-opGp2gn-yA&index=16&feature=plcp

Gary

Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Ingwar on October 01, 2012, 06:47:50 PM
Hello Gary,

I know that you are a busy man and I was not intented to offend you. Thank you for informative answer and links.
I've seen all your videos with MP III before but this time a I listened more carefully to your words. I've seen the FAQ on your site but unfortunately haven't read all the posts there - mia culpa.

Summarizing what I've read and heard:
The power consumption has droped up to 17% (from 9Ah to 7,5Ah on 16km uphill ride)
The speed has increased up to 10% (from 40 to 44 km/h)
The torque has increased up to 30%
The weight remains the same 9,5 kg (but in the post of AussieCruzer MP III on 26' weights 8.95kg)

And all these figures are only due to controller and wiring improvement or ...?

I am a happy owner of Fly-600 with 20' cast rear MP2. I've improved almost every velo- part.  And 've got a pretty good results - top speed - 33km/h, range - 42 km on 36v 10Ah battery with no pedalling.
And now I want to upgrade its elecric part - I am waiting for 48V 20Ah battery pack and thinking of changing MP2 to MP3. What do you think is it worth it?
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on October 02, 2012, 12:23:27 AM
No offense taken. That's the trouble with email, txt and posts these days. If you don't put in enough smileys people think you’re not happy :)

The weight of the motors I have taken right off the gm website.

My opinions are my own, based on my own experinces. If other people’s opinions are different that is fine. I used to rely a lot on what I have heard from others. But now with several years under my belt and a lot of unwanted experiences I have learned a fair amount. If people ask me things I have not experienced I point them to the forum. Things I have experienced I point them to my FAQ. Pictures and tests I can easily perform to help everyone in general, I try to put up on youtube, the forum and/or my FAQ. Currently I'm doing USB setting tests on my MP3 and also see a need to cut open a 36v12ah battery for "a look inside". We need some clarification on how the cells are attached. Simple yes/no questions I try to answer ASAP but its not always possible.

Anyway, starting to babble now. Hope you have found your answers.

Gary

 
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on October 02, 2012, 07:52:36 PM
How much spacer(s) for freeheel installation are included?

Because I have none when unpackaging :-\

Also do I have a newer/different version rim? Because I don't see any Goldenmotor logo/marks on the rim :o
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: truly_bent on October 05, 2012, 09:59:57 PM
Ingwar;
I just have to comment; your Fly-600 looks like such a riot that I had to look it up (http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-NewAgeBike/-strse-11/Golden-Motor-Fly-dsh-600--dsh-/Detail.bok (http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-NewAgeBike/-strse-11/Golden-Motor-Fly-dsh-600--dsh-/Detail.bok)). The term "urban assault vehicle" comes to mind when I see that bike.

And "urban" is where I think it's best suited. Much of my riding is in farm country (fortunately for me, wealthy Mennonites who insist on smooth wide paved shoulders :) ), which is well suited to long wheelbases. My wheelbase is probably twice yours by the looks of it.

I run an MPII (MPIII without internal controller) at 48V and regularly see speeds in excess of 50kph. Even with a long and stable wheelbase, I have to stay focused. I'm wondering how stable the Fly-600 is going to be at those speeds. Great for dodging potholes and mounting curbs in the city, but perhaps a mite squirrely at speed. Let us know how she handles after the makeover.

That seat looks a tad uncomfortable though. How is it?

Jeff
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Ingwar on October 06, 2012, 01:12:25 PM
Jeff,
Thanks for your comments. Actually the aim of upgrading is getting an ability for short bursts of speed up to 45km/h and getting a range of 70km.
All the upgrades of bicycle(velo-) parts have been made to get a smooth, comfy and stable ride and maybe to improve the looks – black-white scheme with some red accents (that’s why some new parts are white and red). The bike is used for short in-town rides and for rather long out-of-town rides on different roads not necessarilly with good surface.

As far as I can see (on your avatar photo) – you’ve used recumbent as base for your e-ride so you’ll be able to appreciate the true value of changes that have been made (many parts were bought from recumbent’s suppliers)
The list of improvements:
Front wheel – Samagaga HC 100F-DB (light, stiff, with excellent rolling – Samagaga uses double-seal bearings)
Fork – Saso Carbon AC Suspension Fork (light, stiff, with adjustable hydraulic damping)
Rear shock – Rock Shox Bar2.1 (air spring with rebound adjustment)
Tires – Schwalbe BigApple 20*2,35 and Scwalbe tubes (Kevlar band protection, excellent rolling, additional comfort)
Handlebar grips - Ergon GP1 Biokork (excellent ergonomics and control)
Pedals – Truvativ Hussefelt (white)
Saddle – Velo Plush VL31 HD Men’s Saddle w/D2 Base (white) – it’s quite comfortable and good for long rides
Shimano GripShift 6spd.
Rear derailleur, cassette and derailleur hanger were changed cause had been damaged during transportation.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on October 28, 2012, 05:49:57 PM
I like the design, but the quality could better.
Mine broke after one ride :o
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on October 28, 2012, 07:08:04 PM
Failing almost immediately is normal for anything electronic that fails. If you read the posts in this forum on failures, almost everyone one was "it failed on the first ride" or "it ran fine for a few days then failed". Sure there are exceptions, but that what they are, exceptions. Very few electronic items fail after being in operation after any period of time but it does happen. That's why is makes no sense to buy an extended warranty on any electronic product. If it doesn't fail during the regular warranty its very unlikely it would fail during the extended warranty period. Extended warranties are usually pure profit for the seller.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on October 28, 2012, 09:46:54 PM
Yes I agree I have no luck >:(
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on January 17, 2013, 08:03:02 PM
Okay after 300 km running time.
There is a knocking noise coiming out the motor, I suspect it is the big bearing problem >:(
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on March 30, 2013, 01:15:30 PM
Okay I have replaced the bearing.

Running time is now more then 2500 km, but due the salt on roads.
The big axle is corroded and  when attempting top open the motor.
A lot of forces was needed, as resust the motor stator cracked.

So this is the end ;D just throw it it the trash and bought HS3540 motor again.
Ofcourse I need to mod this motor, otherwise it will died in a short time (cable shaving issue).

Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Bikemad on March 31, 2013, 01:44:43 AM

I'm very sorry to hear your motor is damaged, but how and where was the force being applied to cause damage to the stator?

Any chance of posting some pictures of the damage so we can see exactly what has occurred.

Also, a bit more information about what you did could help to prevent others from causing similar damage.

Alan
 
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on March 31, 2013, 08:03:44 AM
I will make some pictures.

Well I have performed same steps when opening the motor before.
Just removed all screws, apply some at freewheel side axle.

But it didn't work at this time, so apply some force at disc side axle.
The disc side cover will now lift a few millimeters.

Now you can apply force at freewheel side axle to remove to big bearing cover.

This all what I did.

The big bearing is just to tight (corroded to axle) to remove.
So I think is the troublemaker.

I don't want to spend more money to make it more reliable.
This motor is not easy to mod.

I am riding 70 km a day, so a reliable and easy maintenance motor is welcome ;D
But I had fun with this guy, too much power for some scooters when challenging me hahaha.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on April 07, 2013, 06:45:45 PM
Here are the pictures.
As you can see the motor is fully modded ;D
As I know the issues of this motor before, I wouldn't spend money to make this motor better ;D
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1030.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1028-1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1027.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1026.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1025-1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1024-1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1022-1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1021.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1020-1.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1013.jpg)
(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj81/salomonroller/SAM_1012-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Mat on April 18, 2013, 09:38:01 AM
Hi,
I am having a similar problem, 2 months ago when I received the Magic Pie III 48v.
It was working perfectly, then 2 weeks ago sometimes it didn't start on its own, I had to pedal for a few meters then the engine would start.

Yesterday he engine didn't start again, I pedalled for 200m and still nothing happened I only hear a small noise from the engine meaning it is alive but it doesn't want to turn. I only hear the noise if I pedal but it doesn't bring power. I tried in freeweel mode and even by turning the wheel by hand it is to weak to start. (battery fully charged, throttle showing green light, and same problem if I unplug the brakes and cruise control button)

Can anyone help me?
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on April 18, 2013, 01:34:36 PM
MP3FP

I think you have set a record for the most problems with a MP3. By far the vast majority of people have no issues. When its multiple issues I would think it has something to do with the end user. I have also cracked a stator one time. At first I blamed the motor. But after some time I began to realize it was how I took the motor apart. It had nothing to do with pounding the axle to remove it. It was the prying against the stator that did it. Even it the axle is corroded there is no force against the stator if its taken apart properly.

I do like the picture of the stator though. The coating on the wires is very nice!

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on April 18, 2013, 01:39:04 PM
Hi Mat,

You may want to start a new thread with your issue so it will be more noticeable. Then others in the future can reference it easier as well.

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on April 18, 2013, 04:42:26 PM
O  well I am just a high requirements end user.
Everything has to be almost perfect for me hahaha ;D

Yes the big bearing axle is real corroded, no way to remove the cover.
It's protected from salt, snow, water etc....

But I had fun with the motor..... ;D
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER on April 18, 2013, 04:43:31 PM
Mat check the motor sensors...
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Mat on April 21, 2013, 06:43:08 PM
Hi Gary, ok I move it to this thread: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3385.msg28373#new

Matt
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on April 24, 2013, 12:26:40 AM
Hi Gary, ok I move it to this thread: http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=3385.msg28373#new

Matt

Well close mat, I was just thinking you could start a new thread with your issue so it could be easy to find and refer to. But you still dropped in on another thread, but that's OK At least you are being looked after :)

Gary
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Leslie on August 04, 2013, 08:55:02 AM
Just bought one of these 20" cast wheels from Golden Motor Canada.  Awesome GM gear there on the site. 

Whats the RPM on the 20 cast? 

I suspect if you want a decent RPM you need an over clocked MCU or analogue hall sensor switching to handle the pole count.  I love the stepping torque these motors.offer.  The 20 inch should be a blast at 72v. 

Im thinking Lipo with this old Dyno Curry full suspension BMX bike I am to rebuilding.

Wont be able to sleep again until deliver time.
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: Bibiii79 on May 29, 2016, 07:34:05 PM
Dear Gary, just one question, can I use PAS with MP3 ? I faced now the display issue I cannot get... I could only what I saw on your website ..Cycle analyst .... but I don't know if a have a chance to use the PAS with it.
Thanks
Adrian
Title: Re: Magic Pie III Updates
Post by: GM Canada on May 31, 2016, 02:48:21 PM
Yes the CA3 can work with PAS. You need the CA3, the CA3 PAS ring and the CA3 3 position switch. I am no expert on how it works as I have never tried it. I use the thun sensor method.

Gary