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General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: Svein on August 24, 2018, 06:18:08 AM

Title: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Svein on August 24, 2018, 06:18:08 AM: Hello, wonder if anyone can help me further on on this issue.
Everything is dead, no leds on throttle, no reaction from head and rear lights.
I`ve just tried out a new controller getting it at alive again, no effect whatsoever.
Swapped to the new throttle, and everything became alive!
I just connected it before assembling,testing that the throttle made the wheel spin. And it did.
So I disconnected everything and assembled in a permanent way.
The next thing was to do a testdrive, but again, everything was dead.
Have done some faultfinding and tests, like this one:

https://www.goldenmotor.ca/FAQ/questions.php?questionid=102

Both tests were dead.
The only thing that is not new is the wiring harness that connect the throttle, brakes and cruisecontrol with the main cable from the controller. This cable was mounted several years ago, and haven`t been touched since then.
But one of the tests above excludes this cable…
Is it possible that a shorting(or something similar) in this cable could damage even a new controller when putting on power(battery delivers above 50 volts)? :o
What should be my next move?
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Tommycat on August 27, 2018, 01:53:48 PM: Those 2 tests are to just bypass the throttle. If you have total loss of main battery power, which your description sounds like. You've got a different issue.

The first thing that comes to mind is having a good battery connector connection. Check for voltage coming out of it on the controller side if possible. Or even across the connectors for presents of a voltage drop.(which would be bad) Your first job is to get the LEDs lit back up... ;) If all is good going into the controller. Time to turn to the harness. Using this wiring pin-out diagram, check for main battery + power coming out of the controller.

(https://i.imgur.com/3OLenvz.jpg)

Battery + and Battery negative. Should show full battery voltage. Continue with the rest of the harness if needed.

Let's keep this thread going here in the Pie discussions... if needed.

Regards,
T.C.
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Tommycat on August 31, 2018, 08:04:07 PM: Quote from: Svein on August 31, 2018, 06:54:17 PM
Hello and thank you for the info, it was very meaningful for clearing out the situation, I think.
I measured the battery-connectors, and it was about 52 volts. Then, Connected to the battery, there is a brand New Controller including the cable Connected to the battery, so that should be all ok I presume. Then, when measuring the outputcable from the Controller as shown on Your illustration, it gave me about 0,9volts. I measured this between the center Connector(battery ground) and the number two Connector from the right(battery plus). Is the New Controller dead? :-\ BR Svein

"Is the New Controller dead? "

A controller really has nothing to do with the output of full battery power. It would just be a spot to tie the rest of the system into battery power. Output for the LED indicators or headlight etc. With everything else disconnected except the battery, I would double check for battery voltage at the five pin connector first. Then a reasonable next step would be to remove the controller from the hub. And check for battery power on the Battery + VE and Battery - VE board connections. (large Red and Black wires) No power there? Good... it has to be a bad main battery wire or connection/connector to the battery. Both wires are equally important... If you have battery power to the board. I'd look around it for damage as to why power is not making it to the small battery + and/or - wires of the motor harness. :(
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Tommycat on September 03, 2018, 12:48:24 PM: Checking into this further, I see that your MP3 has a 5 cable connector like my MP 5.

(https://i.imgur.com/YMEy0fM.png)

With this being the case I would shift my loss of full battery power to the LED's squarely on the harness. Because if it's like the MP5, no full battery power comes from the controller. It's actually tied in at the connection block pictured above. Sorry for the oversight.

So checking your wiring harnesses for soundness, opens and shorts, would be the direction I would go. Upper would be the easiest to start with... Hopefully the controller is still ok.

Did you add the lighting recently? I'd be double checking it's power draw and wiring. As the harness wiring is very small and can't handle much in the way of amp draw.
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Svein on September 06, 2018, 06:16:47 AM: Hello again!
I have a front beam somthing like this: https: //www.aliexpress.com/item/Bicycle-LED-Light-36V-48V-Bike-Horn-Waterproof-Flashlight-with-Horn-for-Electric-Bike-4W-Headlight/32853715402.html?spm=2114.search0302.3.99.6d1025de67KZ71&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_0_10084_100031_10083_451_10546_452_10307_10548_10618_10065_10068_10059_10103_10696,searchweb201603_0,ppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=6ac900cb-2afb-4850-b159-52e42cb19214&algo_expid=6ac900cb-2afb-4850-b159-52e42cb19214-12

This beam has given me bright light for some 5 or 6 years now. Disconnected it, but still the leds continues to be dead.
Feeling a little anxiuos splitting up the connector block(as shown on your latest picture in the thread) on this brand new controller, there is no other way...?
Maybe first swap the harness? Then everything is brand new. The exixting harness has been working for about 5 or 6 years now.
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Tommycat on September 06, 2018, 02:54:50 PM: Quote from: Svein on September 06, 2018, 06:16:47 AM
Feeling a little anxiuos splitting up the connector block(as shown on your latest picture in the thread) on this brand new controller, there is no other way...?

I definitely would not start there... :o First use an ohm meter and check wiring resistances. Check the upper harness using the diagram above. Looking for open (wire broke) or shorted (wire conducting to more places than where it should) wiring. Matching up the holes at the end with the pins at the beginning. Also checking the loose wires (non-connector) used for the light and horn.

Then check the motor harness doing the same. Also checking the loose wiring for reverse and PAS. I don't have any controller wiring pictures of the MP3... but perhaps this one of the MP5 will help sort things out.

(https://i.imgur.com/xgCBFbd.jpg)

But if you have full battery voltage at the controller thick Red and Black wire terminals, and not at the motor connector pin hole... :( The only thing in the middle is the harness wiring. Check all holes (female pin connectors) just to be sure, doesn't hurt.

Your headlight drawing 4 watts is less than an amp... no problem. How about the rear lights?
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Svein on September 09, 2018, 07:00:30 PM: Hello, I found a broken cable, the one for Battery + on the throttle and light Control Connector.
Tested another Battery + Connector and that one was all okay. New harness next step?
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Tommycat on September 09, 2018, 07:53:53 PM: Quote from: Svein on September 09, 2018, 07:00:30 PM
Hello, I found a broken cable, the one for Battery + on the throttle and light Control Connector.
Tested another Battery + Connector and that one was all okay. New harness next step?

The lighting issue would be that the Batt + power goes to and thru your light switch on your throttle then back to the light control connector then over to the lighting feed wire. No Batt+ power-no light power...

Can you isolate between the upper and motor harness where the Batt+ loss is occurring. Your also checking the ground? You mentioned before that you didn't have it (Batt+) on the lower motor connector. And did you check to see if any wires where shorted to where they were not supposed to go? Especially verify that the 5vdc wiring is isolated and sound.

Your making progress! :)

But speaking of next steps. It would be important to know if your controller is still putting out 5 vdc regulated power! After making sure that no other wire in the harness is shorted to the 5vdc wire do the checks below.
Having full Batt+ and Batt negative power at the controller board, make sure you have +5 vdc first at the board (VSP5V), then at the motor connector and then +5 vdc at the throttle connector. This may rank more important than Batt+ power to the LEDs. As it actually allows the controller to operate.

EDIT: More plainly, I would make every effort to find the CAUSE of the wire failure first before replacement. After establishing where it is, do an autopsy and check the failure for wire break, corrosion, or over heating due to high amp draw... Especially if its from some short causing over amperage in the small wiring of the harness, as other components would need to be checked next also before replacement...
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Svein on September 10, 2018, 05:47:43 PM: The 5 v is dead, measured it at the end of the cable from the Controller, between the 5v and ground battery. I must take the New Controller out of the Wheel to do a proper test of it. I`ll be back!
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Tommycat on September 10, 2018, 09:26:20 PM: Keeping fingers crossed that the controller is O.K.

Check post #40 when you get a moment... HERE. (https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/builds/ebike-building-directions/48457-1st-build-e-bike-rider-magic-pie-v5-rear-bottle-batt-52v-11-5ah-huffy-parkside?p=64253#post64253)
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Bikemad on September 11, 2018, 02:59:56 PM: Did you check for a possible direct short in the controller as described in my post on the other thread (https://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=6566.msg36092#msg36092)?

If you do not have battery voltage across the controller's battery cables, you are unlikely to have +5V coming out of it. ;)

It is confusing having two separate threads relating to the same problem, but I feel it would be even more confusing if I now merged the two threads together. :-\

Alan
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Svein on September 16, 2018, 03:01:41 PM: Hello guys, thanks for not giving up on me…, I am, though! ::)
Realised that the battery connections were twisted! After putting them back in place, everything worked.
Sorry for giving you a kind of totally unecessary headache! :-[
The main thing is though that everything is ok now. Thank you very much, gentlemen!
I`m familiar With the art of simpliness, but as you can understand, not very good at it. Sometimes the answer lays right in front of you.
It is kind of good story to tell, though! Hahaha, stupid guy from Norway. ::) :o ;D
Title: Re: MP III dead, rear wheel engine.
Post by: Tommycat on September 16, 2018, 03:22:11 PM: Really glad to hear you found and corrected the problem! ;D Thanks for checking back in and letting us know!

Best regards,
T.C.