GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: OzGeeksGarage on December 15, 2012, 11:34:17 PM
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Hi all,
My 20" front Smart Pie motor with disk brake has arrived for my 20" shopping trike conversion, I've hit a couple of snags fitting the front wheel, my normal curved forward & flared wider standard forks are only 90mm apart inside for the axle and even if I bent them out enough the disk brake rotor will foul and I'd still have to add a mounting bracket for the disk brake caliper.
The obvious solution seems to be to buy a new pair of 100-105mm wide straight front forks so I went down to the local bike shops and they had nothing wide enough.
Anybody found anything off the shelf that a Smart pie fits straight into with disk brake mount, I'm wanting a bit of chopper look too and straight 20" forks would probably foul on the frame turning so thinking 24"-26" straight forks, with suspension if possible.
Anyone found anything off the shelf?
Also another issue is because I have dual rear brakes, my dual cable rear handbrake lever has a parking brake lock but doesn't have a electic brake switch of course, I don't suppose anyone has seen any such animal or a converter to split a single cable to operate dual brakes :)
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Hi
I have nothing for your front problem. Regarding your brakes, maybe you can have the rear brakes just the way they are, and only use the front brake lever to initiate regen and braking.
Personally, I did not like the regen braking effect on brake modulation, and wound up disconnecting it on my trike.
TTFN,
Dennis
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Thanks, that's pretty much the plan currently, I'll see how that goes :)
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Another solution to the rear break problem is a "HWBS - Hidden Wire Brake Sensor (http://www.bmsbattery.com/459-hwbs-hidden-wire-brake-sensor.html)" that detects wire movement. It is an active unit and needs +5v supply so its not plug'n'play, but it shouldn't be very hard. I have never tried one so I don't know if they are reliable.
EDIT: More info about the HWBS at padelecs.co.uk (http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/10825-hidden-wire-brake-sensor.html#post142481)
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My local bike shop had similar forks on bikes in their shop but told me they never fit, I found most of the online sellers useless to get details of the forks width (if they bothered to reply), conversing with many of them 3 volleys of messages to and fro only ever got me the distance between the axel mounts, none seemed to grasp the concept of getting me the measurement of clearance between 2 parallel forks or couldn't be bothered measuring it for me just for a sale. So I'm a little disappointed with some of the simple things being the must frustrating. I just took a gamble to see what I got.
I didn't get any answers on my forks question here so I'm posting my results as a warning for any other person thinking of a front mounted Smart Pie as it seems I'm one of the few to ever try it, I found the following forks "suspension Forks TGS 083LO D6gg" on Ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160661126998?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 for $76, they give me about 1-2mm clearance for the disk brake rotor, I haven't tried fitting the caliper yet but suspect I'm going to need/make an adaptor to offset it. But at least I think I can get some progress happening again.
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Those forks look exactly like the front forks on the Golden Motor Joy Ebike.
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/image_zpsf7dda2a1.jpg)
I use a set I cut offa joy Ebike for trying and testing wheels.
(https://arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotorCanada/GM010-1.jpg)
Actually I just mad a video using those forks. If they are the same they are incredibly strong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPxOKDIz0_A
The brand name on mine is Zoom, but I hardly think that means anything these days.
Gary
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Cool stuff, that video it showed me a couple of little things I needed to know, my brake caliper seems to even fit, I may just need to shave 0.5mm off them to centre them on the disc. Just got to fit the forks to the trike and order some batteries to get it all together.
I also liked the info on Reverse as I'm planning reverse as a parking option seeing it's a trike.
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Bugger, hit another snag my new front forks are 1 1/8" in the shaft, my trikes original forks are 1" centre shaft, so it's not going to fit unless I find some new forks or do a cut and shut work done grafting the smaller shaft onto the larger forks. I'm beginning to wish I'd done a rear chain drive conversion instead now :/.
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Hi Oz...
Are you referring to the tube that pivots the forks in the bearings attached to the frame?
If you are, I have an unconventional solution for you. The outer bearing races can be tapped out of the tube that is too small, and the tube swaged to a larger diameter to accept the larger outer bearing races. I used a ball peen hammer to enlarge the tube on a trike I made for my grandkids. Not too difficult, and it felt good to beat the daylights out of the steel....
TTFN,
Dennis
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Hmm nice idea, I might go with that, thanks heaps, I;ll have to change my gooseneck to suit the new shocks too , but that's no big deal compared to the mucking around grafting a 1" shaft into 1 1/8" forks.
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Hi Oz..
We are clearly being separated by a common language.. I'm afraid I may be having a wrong idea of what you are talking about.
WTF is a gooseneck on a bike? What does it have to do with shocks?
Got a picture you can point to?
TTFN,
Dennis
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Hi OZ...
Ok. I Googled bike gooseneck, and now I know what you're talking about. Please forgive my ignorance, I'm really an old gear head..
TTFN,
Dennis
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I remembered another possible solution for you. I have noticed that some headset bearings that have the same outer race diameter, but fit different size tubes.
TTFN,
Dennis
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I thought of that too, I've seen ones to fit smaller forks into a bigger tube, but not sure the opposite is possible, I'm still looking, unable to find any forks that are wide enough for a SmartPie with disc brake mount & 1" shaft. Or I'm going to get my old work mates to do a welding "cut and shut" putting the old fork shaft onto the new forks.
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IT LIVES!
I took it for a few runs down the road today, hooking the Laptop up to the motor and playing with the settings, probably did a km of riding, I bumped the Regenerative braking up to 100%, Acceleration to 50%, left the Amps at 45Amp & 15Amp. I also connected the Pedal Assist to see how it works, left it set to High. It seems the Pedal assist works in conjunction with the throttle just fine. The Regen braking is great, no chance of traction loss with my weight applied. Going to install a combination Voltmeter Ammeter when it arrives. It's a bit weak on gentle hills but I expected that at 24v, that's why I still got pedals, but performance on the flat is fast enough for me, I'm glad I went with 20" SmartPie instead of larger, I needed the gearing, of course I haven't filled the basket with shopping yet either so I might yet add another battery for more grunt :)
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I think I'm fine with leaving the dual rear brakes because I need the locking park brake option, trikes tend to roll away from you :) I may change them to centre pull later, also planning on some wider BMX style grippier tyres as these skinny tyres seem a little light on load carrying capacity I suspect. I don't think I really needed the Disk brake on the front but it was probably easier for a chopper conversion than remounting the previous brakes. I had to extend all the wiring, I ended up running a 24 core control cable from the front terminal box to the Battery box, also ran 20 Amp 2.5mm house wiring for the battery to the motor, have to upgrade that later. I am then looking at adding indicators to the rear and front. The head lights are 2x12v LED lamps wired in series and seem bright enough, though want them for day use, I won't ride at night due to my eyesight issues. I'm hunting around to try find a small 24v air compressor so I can pump up my tyres the easy way :)
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Some rear pics, glad I have at least 7 speed gears to use, most of the trikes have only 3 and 1 rear wheel drive, I haven't experienced any cornering issues without a rear differential, though most of the time I don't pedal while cornering. Plenty of room for another battery, in the box, had to move the basket back, but plan on extending the wheelbase another 8 inches to fix that and also widen the back wheels another 6 inches for more stability while lowering the bum a couple of inches too. Glad the PAS seems to be working it wasn't till after fitting I realised there's no way to get the crank off now without breaking the Sensor disc.
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Took it for a 5 km run, got some interesting looks, mate reckons I need streamers on the hand grips :)
All went well though I had to pedal to keep up with my mates mountain bike. Ahh I did have the pedal assist wrong way around putting the trike up on stands I did some experimenting then found it only working when I pedaled backwards, I also found the crank loose and after flipping the sensor on the bracket round the other way discovered I only needed to turn the disc around, not the whole bracket, so all fixed :)
Took it for a run and found that high is too much pedal assist, plugged in the laptop and set it to medium, it seems medium is the go and backed the acceleration back to 40%, I also learnt that having a high rear sissybar looks cool, but doesn't allow you to swing your leg over the back to get off, so you look uncool stepping through the front instead, I'm buggered if I can remember how I used to get on and off a Dragster bike with a front bar :)
I'm going for another run this afternoon to a Dental appointment :)
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I'm going for another run this afternoon to a Dental appointment :)
Just make sure you thoroughly enjoy the ride there, as the resultant big grin on your face should then allow easier access for your dentist. ;)
Your trike seems to have finally come together very well, but if you are still looking for a bit more assistance on hills you should try increasing the current settings.
I now have my Smart Pie set on maximum current as I really enjoy the big difference in power over the lower default settings. It's a bit noisier under heavy load at low rpm, but I can cope with that.
What speed can you reach on the flat using the 20" wheel @ 24V without pedalling?
Alan
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My motor is still set as factory 15Amps continuous & 45Amps max, it didn't seem to be hot after yesterdays run how much higher have you set yours?
I'll have to get a speedo to work out my speed, I guess it's 15-25kph, it's fast enough for me on the flat, I'd like more when crossing lanes, but pedaling fixes that, the trike doesn't take corners real well, too narrow in the track and too high in cetre of gravity for my liking. I am planning to work on that, the rear frame is separate to the front part, so I'll build a new rear section a couple of inches lower with wider track & a couple of inches of suspension to allow leaning, center pull brakes and longer wheelbase with a lockable rear box.
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Mine is set to 30 Amps continuous and 70 Amps max., but the highest current draw I have recorded so far on the wattmeter is only 33.75 Amps with my 29.6V LiPo pack.
The power consumption was initially around 545 Watts with the original factory settings, but setting the current to maximum has raised it to over 1000 Watts and the difference is really noticeable. :D
Regarding your proposal to fit rear suspension, I think it would make the trike even less stable on corners at speed, as it would just allow the trike to lean outwards more on bends while cornering (instead of leaning into them) because the centre of gravity is still going to be much higher than the roll axis on the rear suspension.
Alan
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1000w? Hmm are yourse MP2 or 3? Mines only a Smart Pie so I didn't think the motors that high in capacity, I've seen 30 Amps on my Ammeter, unfortunately I can't read the digital voltmeter / ammeter in daylight, I need to reposition it :P
You may be right about the suspension, I got to have a good think about it, maybe just the lowering and widening will do the trick.
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Hi Folks,
Building a leanable trike isn't the easiest thing to do, but I can attest that it can be done. It certainly makes trikes better to ride. Two front wheels is easier, because of the drive simplicity for a single fixed rear. I finally came up with using allen keys as torsion bars to make them self uprighting, which makes them easier to ride from a stop.
TTFN,
Dennis
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Sounds interesting any photo's of what you've done. Yeah I'm finding it a bit freaky on off camber corners even at low speeds, maybe I'll get used to it more after some more usage too, or maybe I'll plan a quad next time :)
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I found these...I might have more somewhere.
Dennis
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The second one looks more like what I'm thinking can you get me a closer photo of the mechanicaql bits in the rear, I zoomed it as much as I could but it got too blurry for my crappy eyes to work out how it all works.
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This help?
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Yes that secon pic is pretty good.
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1000w? Hmm are yourse MP2 or 3? Mines only a Smart Pie so I didn't think the motors that high in capacity, I've seen 30 Amps on my Ammeter, unfortunately I can't read the digital voltmeter / ammeter in daylight, I need to reposition it :P
Mine is a Smart Pie too:
(http://www.arhservices.co.uk/GoldenMotor/Smart%20Pie/AfterLH.JPG) (http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=4631.msg26710#msg26710)
I'm surprised you have managed to get a reading of 30 Amps with the lower settings as mine was drawing less than 18 Amps before I increased the current settings from the factory default of 15 Amps continuous 45 Amps max.
You might want to check out Google for more pictures of leaning trikes (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tilting+trike&hl=en&safe=active&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=-P1BUe-6PIeS0QXQ3ICYAg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=939).
Alan
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Well the 30 Amps was in the darker garage doing a poor impression of a burn out, so it was surge reading not continuous, from what I can tell it's not higher than 10 running, mines only 24v too :)