GoldenMotor.com Forum
General Category => Magic Pie & Smart Pie Discussions => Topic started by: o00scorpion00o on September 24, 2011, 05:40:01 PM
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Yes it's finally dead. I brought it up mount Leinster today with the highest part of the ride 2400 feet. I drove to the car park at the base of the tv transmitter access road because I wouldn't have had the battery range to get me there and I wanted to get there and back fast, so I drove.
Anyway I started at an elevation of around 1600 feet and ended up around 2400 feet, all that was in just over a mile so you can imagine how steep it was, I will upload the trip details later.
It did well the steepest part saw the speed drop to 13 mph and by peddling I increased that to 15-16 mph. Max current was around 2700-3000 watts, I saw a max of 75 amps on the cycle analyst! The batteries weren't even been stressed with a continuous rating of 250 amps but I was pulling 2700-3000 watts most of the time which was generating more heat because it was well out of it's efficiency range and most of the power was going in heating the windings.
When I got to the top it was quite hot so I rested there for a few mins and made my way back
I think the problem was using regen on the way back down which only added to the heat that was already there. Because it was only at the end that she died!
To be sure I should have went up at lower power but parts of the climb were so steep I could barely do it
without full power!
Does anyone know where I'll get a stator rather than a full motor?
Mark
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under 5 is fatal for motors on steep hills, as the phase amps get crazy ......
why not just get some laminated copper and learn to rewind :)...then you can rewind the motor for more speed or torque depending on how many are already there :)............have you opened it up to see the damage ?
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Hi Ginge,
What do you mean by under 5?
I don't think I would have the patience for winding motors.
I haven't opened it up yet, I might if I get the chance tomorrow!
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apologies, I mean under 15mph.......budweiser......
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apologies, I mean under 15mph.......budweiser......
HEHEH ;D
I'm on the old Sauvignon tonight! ;D
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I opened the Pie to my total surprise and found the windings to be perfect!
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/2011-09-25154310.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/2011-09-25154238.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/2011-09-25154252.jpg)
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/2011-09-25154224.jpg)
I checked the halls and they fried, so I ordered new ones today should have them by Tuesday from the U.K Radionics!
Words can''t describe how shocked I am running 3 kw through this motor for 1.5 miles up 16% grade, I'm shocked I really really am, to say this is a good motor is an understatement!
Okay so I won't run it up there at full power any more, but I know it will get me to the top and if I let it sit long enough it should survive, or maybe just don't use regen on the way back down!
The Guys over at ES said a 16" wheel would have been far easier on the motor because it would require a lot less torque to haul me up there, but a 16" wheel is not practical for me because I like to cycle!
Mark
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i think if you had the speed a little higher, you would have been fine.....maybe higher temp rated hall sensors and wiring should cut it......
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i think if you had the speed a little higher, you would have been fine.....maybe higher temp rated hall sensors and wiring should cut it......
Hi Ginge,
Yeah considering it does 32 mph on the flat, I might actually need to give it more current, something to try, maybe that's what it needed!
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Here's the grade of the mountain the pie took me up!
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/MountLeinsterGradeProfile.jpg)
Click to see full size. (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/MountLeinsterGradeProfile.jpg)
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Still no halls, so I can't test to see if the motor works, they should be here today!
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Here's the grade of the mountain the pie took me up!
(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/MountLeinsterGradeProfile.jpg)
Click to see full size. (http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa336/o00scorpion00o/Baked%20Pie/MountLeinsterGradeProfile.jpg)
Holey LiPo !!!!!!!!!! No wonder it smoked lol you need titanium cased hall sensors for that haha
Now you should double your power and go sensorless :D And you know you have to conquer that hill now! Or should I say mountain?
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haha monkey, It did get me to the top! Just regen on the way down didn't allow it to cool, so that's what got it in the end.
I replaced the halls and am waiting for the high temp silicone to set.
From what I know sensorless is not supposed to work good with high power set ups, and I would have to get another controller.
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lyen has a new version of the sensorless controller that should overcome these issues ( ill let you know in 5 days)
Hey mark, my mac is RIP......after my first full mad journey to work, 25mph for 25 miles, the insulation melted in the axle taking out the green hall sensor....i spent a few days adding lipo, making sure the controller was cooled so I could go full power the whole way....oops....
So the dependable huge chunk of metal that is the pie has been refitted .........
I love the mac, but for sheer brute force for a long time, id have to swiss cheese the covers......
Ill fit that on my second bike, for maybe twice a week cycles with motor assistance
p.s. ( I have covered about 1500 miles on the mac, its not as bad as it sounds)
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Hi Ginge,
Your poor mac. I knew it was a matter of time before you killed it lol
Ginge I have no idea how that happened, 25mph isn't even beginning to stress the mac, that's only about 800 ish watts.
I can run 1200 watts 33 mph for 5-7 miles constant with some hills and the stock phase wires are barely warm.
It just doesn't sound right, the infineons cell-man provides for the mac are a perfect match, problems have been known with other infineons!
It should do well over 1500 miles!
The only thing I can think of is that you had the controller turned up to crazy high amps, but at 25 mph it shouldn't draw more than 800 ish watts anyway!
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Was that with the metal gears too?
Lol crazy Ginge on the Donkey (generally on 1 wheel)
:D
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LOL Ginge,
No the new gears, the grey ones.
There was something wrong there ginge, that shouldn't happen your phase wires at that kind of power, is it the 320 rpm you got? that's the one I have!
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Hi Chaps
Grey gears....they are indestructable :), after seveal stupid misfortunes, they have proved their toughness.....
The problem is that the drive has issues to dissapate its heat.....5-7 miles no problem...the short happened at around mile 24, with the drive having consumed at this point around 14 ah, average 22mph, 35 top speed
Before the lipo, I generally used to run low on battery power at this point, which I guess was a nice safety feature, But I guess after the install of 18ah of nice new lipo to keep it fed, I crossed the threshold of heat......bmc have a big issue with this axle problem.....
ill take some pics when I get time.....It really is a great great "cyclists" motor..
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Ginge you're a motor killer, did you tell cell-man what you did ?
I bet even he will be shocked, I still can't see how you could kill it at mainly 25 mph , only you Ginge my man, only you! :P
;D
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So what is it dead?? Are there any pics?
Hmmmm its funny how you guys both went away from the pies only to come back to them !!!!
:D hehe
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Well When I fried the halls in my mac I had no choice but to go back to the Pie for a while.
It was my fault I killed the mac halls by plugging the cycle analyst connector into the halls ::)
I love the mac for it's small size and sheer power and it's freewheeling ability.
The Pie also has it's advantages, regen, you can dump a lot of power for longer into the pie and you don't have to worry about off roading, but it's hard to pedal along with!
I have to source new wire for the halls as the wire I used to externally wire them melted to the axle on my 16% climb last week! :'(
Hopefully I can get new wire today but it means driving 100 miles to Dublin there and back to Radionics if they even have wire or they might have to order it from the U.K, if that's the case I probably won't have it up and running for a good 2 weeks as I have to go to Germany on Wednesday!
The mac halls are replaced, I'm just waiting on grease for the gears, I managed to re use the pcb so I've no idea if it works yet either!
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on the bmc a lot of guys have just skipped the pcb, like the pie halls......
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Yeah that would probably have been just as easy as trying to scrape epoxy off!
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Went for a spin last night in the rain, it's been raining the last few days so I just said to he'll with it and put on my wet gear!
The motor starts off rough, but it runs fine once it speeds up a bit, it's only from stop. If I lift the back wheel it runs fine with no sign of roughness.
It's only under load its rough from start, I've no idea what's causing it? Maybe it did get damaged from the heat?
But the new halls work fine!
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I think from reading ES forum it's something to do with the position of one of the halls, it's nothing serious, and I'll fix it soon!
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this is the failure that I have on mine....seems fine when you are off the bike, but as soon as you sit on it, it dies, runs with mass vibration....could be axle wire melt.....check the amp usage when you sit on saddle and when bike unloaded at an angle....if there is a difference in the amps used....( 0.06 compared with 0.12 example), then probably short circuit somwhere
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this is the failure that I have on mine....seems fine when you are off the bike, but as soon as you sit on it, it dies, runs with mass vibration....could be axle wire melt.....check the amp usage when you sit on saddle and when bike unloaded at an angle....if there is a difference in the amps used....( 0.06 compared with 0.12 example), then probably short circuit somwhere
Replaced all the wires, but I'd say it's to do with the position of one of the halls, I might check it out sometime, or just use a sensor less controller!
But my mac is back and I'm loving every mile on it.
50 amp battery and 100 amp phase, and it is so addictive, I want to say on it all day! ;D
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So what is it dead?? Are there any pics?
Hmmmm its funny how you guys both went away from the pies only to come back to them !!!!
:D hehe
Well minkye, its like this.....i have 3 boys, all so loveable, some soft, some thugs, and I love each of them in different ways, not none less than the other, if that makes sense
I love the pie, its elegant noise ( which is just beautiful, music to the ears), its durability, its heat dissapation.....its just a big lump of metal that will last forever, but speed....how id love just another 20%, thats all, nothing big..( I don't like, cycling it, carrying it, trying to hide it :) ), but l love it.....its gonna live forever
i love the mac, its speed, its torque, its size, its weight, the fact that I can just turn it off and cycle, its power consumption ( I don't like, its dentist drill sound, its heat dissapation, constantly worrying whether this hill will kill the gears) , but I love it
Does that make sense....
Im back on the pie, but have made my mind to get the mac running, just to shave another 10 mins of my 1hr 10 min journey....in -5C, that ten mins counts
So, there is only 1 option, 2 bikes, 1 with a pie and 1 with a mac..nothing else will do :)
I love th